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Paint newbie questions

kb3

Well-Known Member
Ok....so when it comes to vehicles I can do almost anything, with the exception of paint. I don't enjoy body work so I never tried my hand at painting. The boy recently bought a new rear spoiler for his Focus ST, but it needs to be painted to match the car. He went around and got quotes from $400-800 to paint it. Thinking that is way too much money and I could really learn a new process, I decided to tackle it myself.

It is an ABS wing that has been primed and sanded. What type of paint, gun, etc should I get started with. I believe it will need to be two stage as the color has some metallic in it. No time like the present to jump in with both feet and try my hand.

Any advice, direction, help, criticism, insults would be appreciated.
 
Great way to give it a first shot. One thing to note is that the wing will likely experience some flexing so I would be sure to get a flex additive to mix in the paint. All new paint jobs are BC/CC as it is easier to apply and do repairs on later. I would simply get factory paint to ensure a good match. You DO NOT need to spend a fortune on a gun/guns to paint. As a matter of fact, I used a fairly inexpensive gun to lay on my clear and I had two pros look at my paint and tell me my clear was laid on way better than most things that go through their shop. Color is easier. I think I spent a total of just about $350 on both the guns I bought to spray my car. Just get some practice panels to shoot first to get a feel for adjusting the gun(s), air pressures and how you move along the panel as you spray. When it comes time to do the actual job be sure to use the right materials. Temperature is pretty a important variable you need to account for when mixing in terms of the reducer used, etc. You do not want to have it dry out to fast, for example. A good paint supplier will set you up with everything to do a nice job.
 
The first thing to do is figure out what brand of paint you are going to use.

I don't paint a ton, but over the last 20 years or so have sprayed enough to know that I like Nason's Epoxy primer, and Nason's 2K urethane primer. Dupont (Now Axalta) Chromabase for color. Clear coats are all over the map. Some of the cheaper ones work just fine. Just be sure to get whatever the local supplier suggests for good UV protection.

Cheap clears have more solvents and require more coats, Better clears ($400-500 / gallon) have more solids and require less coats, and shrink less, hold out better.

Regarding spray guns... you can still do a nice job with cheap guns... Just be sure to use the right tips for the material being sprayed.
Something like this...
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/9-pc-hvlp-spray-gun-set-p-17209.aspx

Once you decide on the materials, then you can choose which guns to get. More than likely you'll be using a 1.0 to 1.2 tip for base coat, 1.4 to 1.8 for primer and probably 1.4 for clear.

Since its ABS, you might want to look into adhesion promoter. and will probably need wax and grease remover to clean. You're going to need Lacquer thinner to clean the guns.

Red Scotchbrite pads to scuff the ABS and likey the primer.

For normal body work the typical process is, spray epoxy to seal the surface, then filler / body work, then another coat of epoxy to seal the bodywork, then a few coats of urethane primer to block it all straight, then a thinned coat of epoxy as a sealer, then a couple / few coats of base color, then top it off with a couple / few coats of clear.

But for a spoiler that is probably already pretty straight, then I would simply consider spraying several coats of epoxy, let it cure a day or two, then block it straight and smooth. Next spray a thinned coat of epoxy (don't sand if base is sprayed within the recoat window), followed by base coat and clear coat. This will save the expense of getting 2K urethane. Epoxy is tougher and more universal than 2K urethane. the advantage to the 2K urethane is that you can start sanding it within an hour or so, but isn't the best when being directly applied over larger areas of metal, whereas epoxy adheres to anything, but needs a day or more before sanding.

Back to the spray guns...the sets of 3 that lots of dealers sell for ~ $100 have worked fine for me. They might not work as well at the top shelf guns, but for primer it doesn't really matter since you are going to block it out. For base coat, it's so thin it's hard to screw it up. Atomization might be comprimized but you won't see it with decent quality base coats (avoid less expensive base coats, they are generally not novice friendly). And for clear, orange peel is going to depend on all sorts of factors including material, gun settings, your spray technique, etc... If you get a little orange peel, it'll probably match the factory finish, if too much peel, then wet sand and polish it, or wet sand and spray an extra coat or two of reduced clear. Sometimes I'll spray two coats of clear with the prescribed mix of clear and catalyst, then add a bit of reducer for the final coat to get it to flow a little nicer. The set of guns I have came with a 1.0 tipped touchup gun, 1.2 tip basecoat gun, and either a 1.4 for primer and clear coat. Some will tell you that you NEED dedicated guns, but as long as you clean thoroughly between material changes you can use the same gun for multiple uses.

Don't forget to pick up water traps to screw on to your guns...

On the cheap side..
Spray guns $100-150
Quart of epoxy + catalyst ( 1/2 gallon sprayable) $70
Quart of urethane + catalyst - $50
Reducer - $30
Pint of chromabase color - $70
Pint of Chromabase Reducer - $25
disposable Repirator $35
Sanding Blocks $20-$100
Misc supplier 75 ( Scotchbrite pads, sand paper, measuring cups, lacquer thinner, gloves, moisture filters, masking materials,
Polishing compounds, trizak pads, polishing pads ... $100+++

As an alternative for the top coat. Most professional paint stores will mix your paint in a single stage two part mix and place it in an aerosal can for about $30. It will be a direct color match, but the down side is once you press the button to activate the catalyst, you'll have a limited time to spray the contents out. For primers, SEM makes some aerosols that have worked fine for me on touchups. Paint supplier can probably advise on that...

Lastly, I'm not sure on the flex additive. Most current paint technologies already have addditives built in to accomodate plastic bumpers and such. Considering a sizeable chunk of cars these days are plastic, it makes sense. Check with the paint supplier if you really need the flex additive. Need could vary based on the primer, base coat and clear coat.

Most of what you'll need to know will be included in the data sheets for the materials you are going to use, Your best friend in this case is going to be the material data sheets and your local paint supplier as they will point you towards cost effective materials they know will work together.
 
Go easy on all the layers of material on something that is going to flex. You want to keep the total thickness down as compared to a solid metal panel. I'd do any minor filler work to get it straight first, seal it and head straight into BC/CC and be done. If this were a chin spoiler or other lower body panel then I would epoxy prime as well to add some hardness to the piece but being that this mounts up top without worry of rock chips etc. no need, IMHO. Save the $. I've never used adhesion promoter but it sounds like a wise step for this kind of material. Call a couple local paint suppliers and have them give you recommendations.
 
I truly appreciate you both taking the time to share your knowledge. I was very hesitant to walk into a paint shop without having at least a small basis of knowledge. I don't mind showing you all that I am a dummy when it comes to paint, but in real life I hate being judged! While I know I may not save much money over having a professional paint it, I figured it was a good way to get my feet wet in something that has interested me as of late. I guess I will head to the paint store later and see if they run me out.

Question - it appears that the parts have all been primed. Do I still need to shoot another layer of primer? There is no exposed ABS so I would think there would be no need for the adhesion promoter?
 
I would certainly prep the part myself and lay down a base that would be compatible with my top coat materials. NEVER assume/accept that a part is ready to paint. Toss the thing in your car and head over to the paint shop and talk to the guys at the counter about it. Show it to them. They will guide you.
 
If already primed and straight, the all it should need is a scuff with the red scotchbrite pads, then wipe down with grease and wax remover. then run a tack cloths to grab any dust particles or blow it clean with your air hose. Then you can go right to paint / clear. Since you don't know what primer is on it, I would start with very light mist coats of base coat to insure there isn't any reaction with the primer base. More than likely, the primer is epoxy. One way to check is lightly soak a rag with lacquer thinner and lightly scrub an are of the primer for a few seconds. If the primer doesn't wipe off, then it's more than likely an epoxy which you shouldn't have any problems with. Even if it wipes off, not a big deal, just start with the mist coats and letting them flash before going with additional coats.
 
thanks Terry! I will report back my success....or most likely failures.
 
Ok...reviving a thread. I finally got around to giving this a try, twice! I went to the local paint shop and they set me up with the base coat and clear coat. Both times I shot it, I got considerable amount of orange peel in the clear coat. The paint shop was not a lot of help. What am I doing wrong?

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Orange peel can be caused by a number of things but a small amount is not uncommon and can be removed by "cutting and buffing". What you have there, Ken, is not a small amount.

My first question would be about the mix. When mixing the paint did you blend the components at the proper levels. i.e. paint to reducer volume, etc. Next I would want to make sure you used the correct reducer for the environment in which you were spraying. Depending on temperature and humidity the mix needs to change. Now if you and used the right stuff (read the labels) it comes down to the gun and air pressure settings...or just you and your technique.

What I am seeing looks like the clear (if you say the base was smooth) simply didn't flow out and level itself. That tells me it "set" too fast. Or if I want to blame you for it I could guess your air pressure was too high and or you had the gun too close. What size tip is on the gun and what air pressure did you use? How did your fan look in size and shape when you test sprayed it on a board?

Some clears can be a real bitch to spray, by the way.
 
The base coat laid nice and flat. The problem came when I went to spray the clear. I am using the product as directed by the paint shop. Yes, it did not seem to flow at all. I can't remember the tip size off hand, but basically the same setup as the base. When I tested the pattern on a board all looked good. The shop told me to use between 27-30 psi, so it was in that range. Two tries with the same result, not sure I want to take a third shot at it until I get a better understanding.
 
Are you using a reducer that will allow the paint to flow/dry at the temp that you're painting? Are you laying down a light (tack) coat first, then going a little more and little more?
 
Are you using a reducer that will allow the paint to flow/dry at the temp that you're painting? Are you laying down a light (tack) coat first, then going a little more and little more?

No reducer added to clear coat, per paint shop. They said to mix the clear coat and activator, then lay a coat. Wait 20 minutes and then shoot a second coat. Possible they forgot to tell me about a reducer? They did give me a reducer for the base.
 
No reducer added to clear coat, per paint shop. They said to mix the clear coat and activator, then lay a coat. Wait 20 minutes and then shoot a second coat. Possible they forgot to tell me about a reducer? They did give me a reducer for the base.
WTF???? No reducer???
OK, need more info. What brand/type of paint are you using? Never heard of no reducer. There are different "temp" reducers that go with the ambient temp that you're spraying.
 
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