Shelby drop and lowering spring

[67stang]

I think you have plenty of clearance. Get some shims. They're cheap. The odds of a shop having the correct style shim (any actually) are slim to none at best.

I still recommend you do the alignment yourself. Whoever you take it to has likely never even tried to do one on a vintage car like yours so their skill set is no better than yours. They are used to putting a car on a rack, having a computer tell them everything. Modern car alignment adjustments are simple, straight forward and easy. When they realize they need to pull control arms loose and slip in shims...likely over and over as they try to figure out how it works...I promise you they will get frustrated and at some point say "close enough!". If you do hire it out make sure you get to see the final set-up as it is measured on the car (I tend not to trust people ) And make sure your wheels are properly set/centered within the wheel opening.

My alignment now seems perfect, so I am curious: Would I expect to add shims or remove shims with doing this drop?



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[guruatbol]

What year car is this again? 67?

No shims on some years. Can't remember if it is the 65-66 or what.

Anybody?

Mel

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[67stang]

What year car is this again? 67?

No shims on some years. Can't remember if it is the 65-66 or what.

Anybody?

Mel

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1967 fastback with a 351w 5 speed power steering. Currently my car does have shims, could be for many different reason.

But curious which directing my tires will tilt if I drop it and keep the same shim.


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[Horseplay]

As far as I know, shims were used up until at least 67/68. Never dealt with anything new prior to the 80's models. 67/68 benefit from the LCA eccentric so 65/66 guys have a much more difficult time trying to get both caster and camber set.

General concensus is to take 1/8" worth of shims out after the drop. I can't give you firsthand experience as I've never had a car that had a starting point of a good alignment.

 

[Horseplay]

1967 fastback with a 351w 5 speed power steering. Currently my car does have shims, could be for many different reason.

But curious which directing my tires will tilt if I drop it and keep the same shim.

Lower the upper arm brings it down closer to the lower, effectively lengthening it. The "drop" also moves it back, adding caster.

 

[67stang]

Lower the upper arm brings it down closer to the lower, effectively lengthening it. The "drop" also moves it back, adding caster.

You are a wealth of knowledge!! So if I currently have three shims, I should maybe take 1 out while reinstalling? Just so I'm in the ball park.


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[Horseplay]

If all shims are 1/8" thick, then yes, that would jibe with common experience. I would get a hold of some other shims (1/32") which would allow some fine tuning. When i did mine recently I had very specific values in mind I wanted to hit and the thin shims let me get there.

 

[3175375]

if I recall, shims were used in 64.5 - 66. 67+ used cams. I bought an adjustment kit that sets camber in8 different positions. Only Toe is to be adjusted (I think caster is stet).

People from the peanut gallery, chime in and correct my mistakes.

 

[Horseplay]

if I recall, shims were used in 64.5 - 66. 67+ used cams. I bought an adjustment kit that sets camber in8 different positions. Only Toe is to be adjusted (I think caster is stet).

People from the peanut gallery, chime in and correct my mistakes.

Shims are/were used on the UCA. The cam of which you speak is the eccentric that positions the LCA on the later models (post 66). The kit you are talking about most of us got from John at Opentracker made for the 65/66. You slot out the LCA mounting hole and use various plates with a hole in them to shift the LCA in or out just as the Ford eccentric does on the later models. So sayith the Peanut Gallery.

 

[67stang]

Shims are/were used on the UCA. The cam of which you speak is the eccentric that positions the LCA on the later models (post 66). The kit you are talking about most of us got from John at Opentracker made for the 65/66. You slot out the LCA mounting hole and use various plates with a hole in them to shift the LCA in or out just as the Ford eccentric does on the later models. So sayith the Peanut Gallery.

Update: right side done!! 3 hours!!! Good news no issues!!

Interesting things:
1. Only dropped 1/2 inch at most! and that driving it for about 10 minutes.
2. I do need new upper control arms. Lol. So I will order tonight.
3. This car had an interesting rubber guard at the top of the spring. 1/2 inch thick. Is that Normal.l? I ordered new ones.
4. I did take at one set of 1/8 shims. As it sits right now the tire has a very slight positive camber. I just used a level. ( I know it's not accurate but that's all. I have)
5. Car drove straight.

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[67stang]

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[67stang]

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Also to add. I'm obviously no expert but I assume this is the adjustment for the camber and the nut for the right side is outboard. So I assume I have lots of adjust to make this a negative camber.

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[Boom]

Car looks good, it'll lower a bit more after proper alignment and driving a bit. You might look into upgrading from the cams to a camber kit, Opentracker has them. They replace the cam and bolt you have stock and in their place they have different plates that lock the camber into on spot. Lot more secure then the original cam design with today's wider radial tires.

http://opentrackerracing.com/product/lower-arm-camber-kit-1967-1973/

 

[3175375]

Your Mustang looks great. Yes, the image you posted is the camber cam. Caster and toe-in/out also need to be addressed once you get the new UCAs installed.

Your garage is immaculate- how do you do that?

 

[67stang]

Lol, thanks man, i actually can park three cars in my three car garage!!

Maybe someone can chime in. The adjustment but for camber appears to be all the way outboard. After thinking about it I think it's maxed out for negative camber. So when I go to replace my upper control arm should I remover another 1/8 shim?


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[Horseplay]

The rubber piece is an insulator to prevent/dampen squeaks, etc from the coil spring. They make various thicknesses now so lots of people use them to fine tune the ride height.

The goal is to get into negative camber (wheel leaning in at the top). Removing shims on the UCA will increase camber but also can affect caster. If your LCA adjustment is maxed then, yes, shim removal will be necessary. Didn't you write somewhere there were wheel spacers in use? From the pic with the tape measure it looks like your wheel sits outboard quite far. If there is a spacer I suggest removing it. Then you will need to put the car on stands and use a jack to raise the front suspension through its full travel to make sure you don't have any clearance issues. That spacer might have been added to correct bad wheel offset with those aftermarket wheels.

 

[67stang]

The rubber piece is an insulator to prevent/dampen squeaks, etc from the coil spring. They make various thicknesses now so lots of people use them to fine tune the ride height.

The goal is to get into negative camber (wheel leaning in at the top). Removing shims on the UCA will increase camber but also can affect caster. If your LCA adjustment is maxed then, yes, shim removal will be necessary. Didn't you write somewhere there were wheel spacers in use? From the pic with the tape measure it looks like your wheel sits outboard quite far. If there is a spacer I suggest removing it. Then you will need to put the car on stands and use a jack to raise the front suspension through its full travel to make sure you don't have any clearance issues. That spacer might have been added to correct bad wheel offset with those aftermarket wheels.

Yes there are spacer for the front wheels, and I think they are there so the upper control area does not hit the rim. It doesn't hit now but it's really close. I ordered some new upper control arms from Opentracker, when I put these on I will recheck the clearance.

I'm curious: Do you think the bilstein shock are that much better and would I really notice a difference daily driver?

So after I'm done tackling the front I will replace the leaf springs. I obviously don't want to raise my rear, and I actually like the way the rear sits. So I was assuming I would get the mid eye from open tracker? Figuring my current (probably original leaf springs are sagging). So the mid eye (1 inch drop) would be about the same?



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[Horseplay]

Yes, the Bilstein shocks are much better. Will you notice? Sure. Is it worth the expense. Maybe. I suggest you hold off on shocks for now. They are an easy swap at any time. Drive the car with the new set-up first so you can KNOW what the change(s) so far have done to the ride...both feel and performance. Do too much at once and you'll never know what part made what change. What you are doing already will make quite an improvement.

Rear leafs can be tricky. Old mustangs like to ride high up front with original parts but the rear sits lower, closer to the tire. Mid-eyes will likely dramatically lower the rear end unless your old springs are really weak (not that likely). It's not uncommon to have to try a couple (even a few) spring sets to find the ride height you are after. Judging by your one garage profile pic I'm guessing mids will get the wheel opening right down to the tire. You need to make sure your tire rides inside of the opening flange so you don't get rub, or worse cutting into the tire. Based on the one profile pic your front is higher already you may not want to lower the rear. Have you replaced the rear shocks? That will have greater affect on the rear suspension ride feel. Mid-eyes will also make the rear much stiffer (rougher ride). Something to consider.

 

[Grabber70Mach]

@67stang get your new upper arms from John at ORP, he deburs and centers them, then welds a tab so they won't loosen up. You won't regret it.

 

[67stang]

Yes, the Bilstein shocks are much better. Will you notice? Sure. Is it worth the expense. Maybe. I suggest you hold off on shocks for now. They are an easy swap at any time. Drive the car with the new set-up first so you can KNOW what the change(s) so far have done to the ride...both feel and performance. Do too much at once and you'll never know what part made what change. What you are doing already will make quite an improvement.

Rear leafs can be tricky. Old mustangs like to ride high up front with original parts but the rear sits lower, closer to the tire. Mid-eyes will likely dramatically lower the rear end unless your old springs are really weak (not that likely). It's not uncommon to have to try a couple (even a few) spring sets to find the ride height you are after. Judging by your one garage profile pic I'm guessing mids will get the wheel opening right down to the tire. You need to make sure your tire rides inside of the opening flange so you don't get rub, or worse cutting into the tire. Based on the one profile pic your front is higher already you may not want to lower the rear. Have you replaced the rear shocks? That will have greater affect on the rear suspension ride feel. Mid-eyes will also make the rear much stiffer (rougher ride). Something to consider.

Good points thank you. Yes I did the rear shock last week, and it does ride much smoother, not so jerky. Even though I don't really do burns outs, it has a terrible wheel hop (the other reason why I don't do burn outs). But it would be nice to get rid of the wheel hop. I don't have a welder, and most traction bars wants you to weld on a bracket. Any ideas.


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