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Tell me about wiring a mini starter...
- Thread starter 65-408
- Start date
Found the following warning on the ford install sheet about wiring without a relay (direct, engagement solenoid to the start switch), I would rather not have a relay, anyone know anything about this?
WARNING: DO NOT INSTALL A JUMPER WIRE BETWEEN THE BATTERY TERMINAL AND THE
SOLENOID BLADE TERMINAL AT THE STARTER TO AVOID THE USE OF THE # 12 WIRE. IF DONE,
VOLTAGE IS GENERATED TO THE SOLENOID BY THE STARTER SPINNING AFTER THE RELEASE OF
THE START KEY OR BUTTON, CAUSING THE STARTER TO REMAIN ENGAGED, RESULTING IN SEVERE
DAMAGE AND EVENTUAL FAILURE OF THE STARTER ! ! !
WARNING: DO NOT INSTALL A JUMPER WIRE BETWEEN THE BATTERY TERMINAL AND THE
SOLENOID BLADE TERMINAL AT THE STARTER TO AVOID THE USE OF THE # 12 WIRE. IF DONE,
VOLTAGE IS GENERATED TO THE SOLENOID BY THE STARTER SPINNING AFTER THE RELEASE OF
THE START KEY OR BUTTON, CAUSING THE STARTER TO REMAIN ENGAGED, RESULTING IN SEVERE
DAMAGE AND EVENTUAL FAILURE OF THE STARTER ! ! !
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Anonymous
Guest
You will need an original type solenoid, that will prevent the current from feeding back from the New Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction (PMGR) don't ask me how I know. I ask "midlife" the same thing a while back. This info/diagram needs to be in the form of a stickie (if not). Anyway here you go.
Yes, I have seen that warning, but am wondering if it only happens when you jump the main starter terminal to the switched starter terminal so it can be used as a replacement for older (traditional style) starters? I found the following that seems to support that the potential for run-on is related to installs that use a jumper:
"Your new PMGR Starter may come with a Bus Bar to facilitate using the original Direct Drive Starter wiring by connecting the relay switched Starter Motor power to the new Starter Mounted Solenoid. DO NOT USE THE BUS BAR or jumper the large Starter Solenoid Main Post to the small Solenoid Start Post in an attempt to eliminate the need for a separate 12v Start Wire.
Doing so can damage your PMGR Starter by causing Starter Run-On for approximately 2 seconds after you release the start key. This is due to the remaining spinning starter motor energy generating mechanical voltage until it has completely stopped.
A motor uses electrical energy to produce mechanical energy, and a generator uses mechanical energy to produce electrical energy. They are very similar. If a motor is spun it will produce electricity.
When the Starter Relay opens, there is no BATTERY power going to the starter, but the voltage generated by the spinning starter motor can keep the new PMGR Starter Mounted Solenoid from de-energizing quickly and retract the gear from the flywheel."
"Your new PMGR Starter may come with a Bus Bar to facilitate using the original Direct Drive Starter wiring by connecting the relay switched Starter Motor power to the new Starter Mounted Solenoid. DO NOT USE THE BUS BAR or jumper the large Starter Solenoid Main Post to the small Solenoid Start Post in an attempt to eliminate the need for a separate 12v Start Wire.
Doing so can damage your PMGR Starter by causing Starter Run-On for approximately 2 seconds after you release the start key. This is due to the remaining spinning starter motor energy generating mechanical voltage until it has completely stopped.
A motor uses electrical energy to produce mechanical energy, and a generator uses mechanical energy to produce electrical energy. They are very similar. If a motor is spun it will produce electricity.
When the Starter Relay opens, there is no BATTERY power going to the starter, but the voltage generated by the spinning starter motor can keep the new PMGR Starter Mounted Solenoid from de-energizing quickly and retract the gear from the flywheel."
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Anonymous
Guest
Unless it comes back on the control wire, which it can't, the battery should act like a shunt to control any excess voltage. I agree with not using the buss bar.
RyanG85
Well-Known Member
You'll want to run the "crank" wire to a relay.
"RyanG85" said:
Why? Only reason I can see is that the ignition switch is not capable of supplying adequate current to engage the mini starter solenoid? What if the ignition switch was fed with a 20A, 12 gauge wire? I am re-wiring everything, so I can do this, as upposed to other installations that are using existing wiring...
The ignition switch was not intended to handle the electrical load of the solenoid. The draw of a relay coil I would surmise to be substantially less than the solenoid."65-408" said:
Another benefit of using a relay is the ability it will give you to use a remote trigger to bump the starter. That can be very useful when you're under the hood tuning and such.
RyanG85
Well-Known Member
I did a ton of forum searching and relay seems to be the best way. Running the jumper works for some but mostly not. I've got the factory crank wire going to the solenoid now and it works but from what I've read, you run the risk of burning stuff up. I'm at a similar stage as you, working on wiring and getting everything together. Its easy enough to do now and not risk any problems later.
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Anonymous
Guest
Its not the wire size that runs to the ignition switch that is the weak link, but the switch itself. Both the start and the run side can be damaged if there is a feedback.
"67 evil eleanor" said:
I disagree... If I understand this correctly, if you are not jumping the terminals of the mini starter to make it work with pre-existing wiring, then run-on is not an issue... I think the only issue is weather or not the ignition switch will handle the mini starter solenoid current draw.
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Anonymous
Guest
Gotta remember that the on circuit has to be engauged the whole time the key is in start. It "can" and has cause problems when using these starters. I'm done.