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4 speed top loader

6

68angrypony

Member
A few questions on toploaders. It has been brought to my attention that the t-10 I have might not hold up for what I want to use the car for. So I'm just learning about the toploader now. What cars/trucks etc came with a toploader 4speed? What do I have to look for to get one that would drop in my 68 coupe? Just that the rear shaft is a 28 spline? My car was originally a 289 with a 4 speed t-10 with 8 inch rear end and 2.88 gears so I'm guessing its a 28 spline. Is their case numbers to look for/avoid? Thinking if I know I can keep my eyes open at the junk yards. Have a buddy who does transmissions and would look at if after I got it and rebuild if needed for 200 bucks. Obviously this is not a to do now item, but obviously wouldn't hurt to have a unit just incase the t-10 goes out. I found these two on Craigslist. Thought they would be good examples so people can look at pics and tell me what they see, what to look for. What is a good price for a toploader?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/pts/3537294649.html


http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/pts/3507334716.html
 
I'm guessing the trans is not original to the car? Yes, you likely need a 28-spline for a small block car. The other thing to look out for is the diameter of the input shaft. Small block cars used a 1 1/16" input shaft. The other thing is to determine if you want a wide ratio or a close ratio trans.

I have always liked the BW T-10 trans. I had one in my 66 coupe that had a Shelby-spec 289 in it and it was just fine for that application. Just out of curiosity, how much power are you putting down to justify needing to swap to a Toploader?
 
For reference, I had the original T10 in my 66 for a number of years at track days. Never had any problem with it.
 
"68stang289" said:
I'm guessing the trans is not original to the car? Yes, you likely need a 28-spline for a small block car. The other thing to look out for is the diameter of the input shaft. Small block cars used a 1 1/16" input shaft. The other thing is to determine if you want a wide ratio or a close ratio trans.

I have always liked the BW T-10 trans. I had one in my 66 coupe that had a Shelby-spec 289 in it and it was just fine for that application. Just out of curiosity, how much power are you putting down to justify needing to swap to a Toploader?
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the t-10 is original with the car. I have no idea how much power I'm running. I believe the stock cleveland numbers were around 250hp and 350lb. I got the motor used and it had an edlebrock intake and carb on it and Whats inside is a mystery. Its most likely stock I'm guessing. Then if you add on the full length headers/header back exhaust, No ac, no power steering, electric fan etc, who knows lol. If I ever get this thing going I will probably take it to a dyno for a baseline which I'm sure which help out tremendously as I get to know the car and what it can do and then what I want it to do.
 
The T10 can hold up to quit a few ponies being pumped through it. It was the mainstay 4 speed in Ford/Mercury cars until the introduction of the toploader (and that includes big block Galaxies and Marauders!). Just out of curiosity, why do you say your T10 is original to the car? I ask because Ford "officially" stopped using them in Mustangs towards the end of the '65 model year. '66 cars received them also until supplies were exhausted. From '67 on...toploaders (small and big block cars).
 
When I ran the vin it say it was a 4 speed manual car. So I assumed that the engine and trans were the original units as the car only had 85k on the odometer and was in an impound lot according to documents in the car for many years before the previous owner got it and then parked it in the mid 80's until I got the car.
 
I would assume you decoded the door tag? The VIN itself wouldn't show which trans the car came with. If you got the info from the door tag, I would understand it being confirmed as an original 4 speed car. As previously stated though, '68 would be originally a toploader.

Even when Ford was mixing 4 speeds (T10's and toploaders), during the T10 phase out at the end of '65, there was nothing to differentiate between which one a car received. If the car was assembled in SJ or Dearborn there was nothing more than the digit on the door tag (simply indicating a 4 speed). If it was assembled in Metuchen then the same digit was present on the door tag, and additionally the buck tag would have some variation of "4SPD" or "4SPEED" stamped on it. Again though, no differentiation between which, 4 speed, T10 or toploader.

One final thing about the T10. The parts can be expensive and difficult to obtain depending on the part. That can be good news for you. It means your T10 can generate a few coins for ya. The stock shift linkage alone can be pricey and hard to find.
 
Sorry if I'm adding another potential headache, but if you are planning to change out the gear box, why not consider a T5 or TKO ?
 
"Ponyman66" said:
The T10 can hold up to quit a few ponies being pumped through it. It was the mainstay 4 speed in Ford/Mercury cars until the introduction of the toploader (and that includes big block Galaxies and Marauders!). Just out of curiosity, why do you say your T10 is original to the car? I ask because Ford "officially" stopped using them in Mustangs towards the end of the '65 model year. '66 cars received them also until supplies were exhausted. From '67 on...toploaders (small and big block cars).
Click to expand...

This is why I was questioning if the trans was original to the car. The car has a 351 in it now? That T-10 should be more than able to stand up to what a fairly stock 351 is putting down. I also agree with cmayna that, for the expense, you would be better off looking for a T5 or TKO trans. What are your plans for the motor long term? That will also make a difference as to recommendations guys on this board can give for a trans to go with (or keeping yours as the case may be).
 
I'm the one that gave 68angrypony the advise about the trans. It sounded to me like he was going to race the car on both the auto X course an some limited drag racing. My trans. guy told me not to run the T-10 in open track and drag race events because they don't hold up as well as a toploader so I passed that along.

I think the T-10 will hold up for a while though his Cleveland isn't stock. I said the clutch dumps at the drag strip or on the street will tear up the T-10 where it won't hurt the toploader.

I have a T-10 in my 63 Galaxie and it holds up fine behind the 390 tri-power. It doesn't see any of what I would consider hard driving. The only time I floor the car is when the clutch pedal doesn't have my foot on it.
 
2nd gear on the T10 and T5 are weak and have issues when dumped real hard.

I have fist hand knowledge of this in our 67 with both transmissions.

You just can't dump the clutch hard in 2nd gear.

My TKO seems to me much stronger in second that the T5 in the 67 or the T10 that came out of the 67.

Mel
 
I drag raced my T5 for 3 yrs. straight and it is going strong to this day in my 66. I dump the clutch often on the street. I will say that is recommended that you use the right clutch plate design for the t5. I use the ford racing heavy duty set up and this t5 has lasted 15 yrs. When I raced it I was dumping the clutch at 4700 rpm. matter of fact I still have that clutch in the 66. Now that I typed this I realize how much I miss drag racing. :sm_NTA
 
The t-10 was attached to the 289 that came in the car when I got it. I added the 351c after I got the car and just attached the cleveland to it. From what I always heard the toploaders are a solid trans. I would love to go 5 or 6 speed but the t-5 seems to have possible weakness's even if you find the "world class" t5 I believe. It would seem that if I can get a toploader for cheap down the road and have it rebuilt, that might be a great way to have a strong trans that I can just drop in and not worry about having issues in any gear. Just kinda thinking ahead in case I see anything looking around for parts moving forward. The cleveland is going to be mildly stock for now and hopefully down the road built into a monster that scars lil kids lol. Who knows. I can dream. Still working to get the car mobile in the next few weeks so I can pick up the pace on the progress.
 
"68angrypony" said:
The t-10 was attached to the 289 that came in the car when I got it. I added the 351c after I got the car and just attached the cleveland to it. From what I always heard the toploaders are a solid trans. I would love to go 5 or 6 speed but the t-5 seems to have possible weakness's even if you find the "world class" t5 I believe. It would seem that if I can get a toploader for cheap down the road and have it rebuilt, that might be a great way to have a strong trans that I can just drop in and not worry about having issues in any gear. Just kinda thinking ahead in case I see anything looking around for parts moving forward. The cleveland is going to be mildly stock for now and hopefully down the road built into a monster that scars lil kids lol. Who knows. I can dream. Still working to get the car mobile in the next few weeks so I can pick up the pace on the progress.
Click to expand...

If your long term plans are to drag/road race and build the Cleveland into a monster, then I would say take a serious look at a TKO. Not that the Toploader couldn't handle that kind of power (I have a Toploader in my 70 and my motor is around 540 hp to the wheels), but I'm sure the extra gear would come in handy when playing on the twisties.

However, I will say this - If you happen to come across a good deal on a nice Toploader with a Mustang tailshaft (Mustang tails are different than the Falcon/Fairlane Toploader tailshafts), I'd say take a shot at rebuilding it yourself. I was very intimidated by my T-10 when I first opened it up to do the rebuild on it, but it is honestly not that hard. And it will save you a good bit of money over having someone else freshen it up for you. That's just more money that can be put into the monster motor fund.
 
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