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65-66 Front 3-point belts?

RyanG85

RyanG85

Well-Known Member
After reading Steve's post on rear 3-point belts, I realized I have yet to set up my front 3-points. Any good "how to" links out there? I'd like to have retractables....
 
I got quite a bit. I have given a lot of thought to the front belts...and have a plan all laid out.

First, I'll toot my own horn and post a link to a post based on my research I wrote at the VMF a while back:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/3817955-post.html

Here are some links I have in my bookmarks:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/574739-3-point-seat-belt-install-pictures.html (VMF thread by crustycurmudgeon)

Great install howto by new member JamesW:
http://midnightdsigns.com/james/3PointBelt.html

Some pictures by Craig#1's 3pt install into Red:
http://rides.webshots.com/album/439768049zvwqIy

Old page by a mustanger named Stephanie:
http://www.stephanies-mustang.com/seatbelt.htm

Writeup I just found today at MustangDepot(Shows the lower door height mounting option)
https://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/Interior/sbc_installation.htm

Best of luck!!!

Steve
 
I, personally, believe there is one company (or pretty close to it) that makes the belts. What you buy depends on WHERE you buy.

I put Juliano Interior's belts in my daughter's '69, JC Whitney belts in my son's '65 (and moved to his '69 later) a Andover Restraint belts in my '69.

The only difference in the 3 belts was the hardware each came with. The more hardware, the more expensive the belt.
 
Huh, that's interesting.

personally, I've been planning to go with Gotbelts.com. I'm sure it's all the same stuff, like you say.
 
I installed the set from NPD. The third point does not mount to the roof, it mounts to the door frame. I love them (or did when they were in a car that had an interior). There was a lot of "discussion" on the safety of the high mount being that low.

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/561594-3-point-seatbelt-talk-pictures-dial-up-warning.html

The pictures have since been moved. They can be found here

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc36/b_m_harrison/Mustang/

Here are two pics of them installed.
100_3643.jpg

100_3636.jpg
 
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Brian, when you reassemble everything, are you keeping the third point there, or are you considering moving to the roof?

I bought and installed the GotBelts belts I was discussing, using the third-point with the 8" "drop sash" with a "roof mounted" third point, and am pretty happy with everything, except I bought the 140" belts (instead of the 80") and they don't really retract on their own. I haven't done the measuring, but I worry about the 80" being long enough. I'm happy enough with it for now. I MIGHT consider finding someone who will remove material from the belts, but for now I'm good.

I understand what everyone was saying about the third point being lower than the shoulder and that being a problem, but since I read that thread way back when you posted it, and saw all the discussion, I've paid attention and have seen TONS of convertible modern cars with the third point lower than the driver's shoulder...about the same as you have. Is it ideal for safety? Probably not...but nothing ever will be ideal for safety in a car built in the mid 60's :)
 
Steve, did you buy from GotBelts? I am holding off on measuring until I can make sure I have the length you mentioned right. Too short and it pulls, too long and it doesn't retract enough and ends up hanging in the door sill and getting slammed in the door when you get out.

What is the proper way to measure this length? from the bottom retractor mount to the roof attachment and down to where the receiving buckle will land on my right hip? I was going to use string to get my measurement. If I could get that measurement right I'd order my belts. Want to make sure it still has a little tension when I'm buckeled in but retracts against the pillar when I get out and doesn't 'hang'.

Just as you I plan to add the 8" sash, did you get the chrome buckles that look like plane buckles ('60's look)? Pics would be great, especially buckled/unbuckled showing the pillar.
Jon
 
I decided to hold off ordering mine also. I'm thinking of adding a 4 Pt Roll bar. I can get a better mounting height off the bar. Just need to get the bar in a fitted to start measuring.
 
"Jonk67" said:
Steve, did you buy from GotBelts? I am holding off on measuring until I can make sure I have the length you mentioned right. Too short and it pulls, too long and it doesn't retract enough and ends up hanging in the door sill and getting slammed in the door when you get out.
Click to expand...

Yep, GotBelts (or whatever they're called now) Make sure to go to their accessories part of the store and get all the additional parts you'll need. I'll come up with a list of all the parts I needed and make a follow up post.

What is the proper way to measure this length? from the bottom retractor mount to the roof attachment and down to where the receiving buckle will land on my right hip?
Click to expand...

Nope, that's not enough. Here's what I'd measure: from Rear Floorboard (right in front of the rear seat...this is where you have to mount the retractor) up to the coat-hook, down to where you'll buckle on your right hip, back across to the left side Stock Mount hole. While the chrome airplane-style belts have are adjustable and can go WAY WAY out, for safety you want the buckle action to be as far away from the door as is practical. Make sure to include length for you to lean forward so you're not tightened down once you buckle up. They have inertia reels, so there's no reason to be uncomfortable.

My MAIN complaint with these belts is they are really really touchy on locking up. A gentle tug will lock them up. I dunno if that's adjustable or not...Might give them a call to find out. Of course GotBelts sources these from, I believe, BEAMS.

Just as you I plan to add the 8" sash, did you get the chrome buckles that look like plane buckles ('60's look)? Pics would be great, especially buckled/unbuckled showing the pillar.
Click to expand...

OK I'll try to snap some pics tonight. I don't have a lot of room on the driver's side because of my garage configuration and my immobile mustang, and the passenger side doesn't have a seat right now, but I'll see what I can do for you.

I am 100% in favor of the 8" sash...it did exactly what I hoped as regards to comfort of the belt angle. My main complaints are:
1)touchy lockup on the belts
2)I apparently bought too much belt
3)despite the ability to have the belt buckle right in your body's center (due to the long adjustable length of the buckle side) This is unsafe, and you end up adjusting it down to just a few (maybe 6) inches long so it buckles on your hip, as we're all used to. For this reason and THIS REASON ONLY I kinda wonder if it woulda been better to get more modern button-operated seat-belts, as they are far more natural feeling to buckle off to the side. WIth the "Lift to open" style belts, we're all used to having them buckle in our body's center (like they did with the stock belts, or when riding airplanes) and so it feels and looks a little weird to have the buckle offset so far.

"crustycurmudgeon" said:
Just a FYI - I recently fixed the links to the pictures in my write-up. They had disappeared.

Frank
Click to expand...

Great! Thanks, Frank! That's one of my bookmarked sites I always reference.
 
Good deal, no rush on the pics, I won't be ordering these tomorrow, whenever you remember is fine even if it's a couple weeks. I forgot about the length from the buckle loop back to the door side original mount. So all 3 of those points added together will give you your extension length?

Lets say those 3 lenths add up to 100in. when I'm sitting in the car, what length belt should I order so that it will fit comfortable and retract all the way to the door post when I get out or is that how they work? Something makes me think they won't retract to the door post due to length or having to constantly adjust the male spade end down to end up at your hip where the buckle is. I thought about the fact that the buckle needs to be at my right hip now making it short so that the triangle goes as far across as possible. I was just going to adjust the buckle (hump side) short and have a sewing place cutoff the excessive extra belt and sew a folded end on it again leaving a few inches for adjustment but not the 1ft.+ loose belt I'm expecting there to be.
Jon
 
"Jonk67" said:
Lets say those 3 lenths add up to 100in. when I'm sitting in the car, what length belt should I order so that it will fit comfortable and retract all the way to the door post when I get out or is that how they work? Something makes me think they won't retract to the door post due to length or having to constantly adjust the male spade end down to end up at your hip where the buckle is. I thought about the fact that the buckle needs to be at my right hip now making it short so that the triangle goes as far across as possible. I was just going to adjust the buckle (hump side) short and have a sewing place cutoff the excessive extra belt and sew a folded end on it again leaving a few inches for adjustment but not the 1ft.+ loose belt I'm expecting there to be.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea on having them shortened.

As far as how much belt you'll need, that's tough to say. I need a lot more belt than you do :) The male spade won't hit the retractor...it barely does on me and my spade is a LOT further up the belt than yours will need to be due to my girthier nature.

Here's the honest answer at this point. 140 is too much. But is 80 enough? I don't know. I know that with me, in the seat, buckled in, I have a metric assload of belt left on the retractor...You coming through ATL anytime soon? If so, we'll plan for you to come by the house (since the oyster season is over anyway, and who wants gulf oysters right now, anyway!!!!) and you can inspect it however you want. I don't want to tell you to go with 80 and then have that be too short. The difference is 5 entire feet of webbing...that's a lot.
 
Thanks for the offer, hopefully I'll be able to take you up on it, don't know where I'm going until 2-3wks. before, going back to Ft. Worth TX next week, 2wks. after that=don't know yet. I would guess I'll be through ATL in the next 3mos. at least. I figure if I could sit in your seat with the belt on knowing what length it is will allow me to figure out a better estimate of what a proper length would be. So when you let it retract against the door (slack) there is 140" left out of the retractor right?
Jon
 
"Jonk67" said:
So when you let it retract against the door (slack) there is 140" left out of the retractor right?
Click to expand...

Clarify. Is your question: When the seatbelt is naturally retracted(meaning I didn't feed it), is there almost 140 inches of seatbelt left OUTSIDE the retractor?

If that's what you're asking, then no. I just measured and it's about 75" at naturally slacked rest. I can feed in more belt and it will wind it...when it's completely wound like that approx 50" is hanging out...which is less than is required for the belt to go from floor, up to shoulder point, back down to stock rocker-side mounting hole...That distance (on my car) is approx 60" (30 up, 30 down...assuming you're using the 8" sash)

All of this makes me worry 80" is not enough. If 75" is just "naturally retracted" that would only leave 5 inches on an 80" belt. I'm still considering if there's a way to have the seat belt shortened...doing this would require it to be resewn by someone who specializes in sewing seat belts.

Let me know what else to measure for you!
 
"AtlantaSteve" said:
Brian, when you reassemble everything, are you keeping the third point there, or are you considering moving to the roof?
Click to expand...

You know Steve, I'm so far away from that point that I haven't given it a moments thought until I read this yesterday. That will be a bridge I cross when the time comes. I also understand their point, mine was just that seatbelts were better than no seatbelts at all. :mod
 
I agree completely. I think they are fine, I guess I was curious if you were happy enough with them, or if you considered moving it after all the ensuing discussion. Since you're redoing your car from scratch, you're a good person to ask, as either mounting position is about as easy to install now.

I think the argument is mostly academic. Until we start crash testing these cars, my opinion is every owner/driver makes decisions that he feels comfortable with, and lives with the consequences. Anyone who buys or drives one of these cars with the expectation that they are in the same cocoon of safety that they might be in a Mercedes Benz S Class is fooling themselves. You just do your best to make it better.

Jon, and Anyone else who wants to see, here is the link to my seatbelt pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30576332@N02/sets/72157624090923636/
 
Your absolutely right Steve. I was completely happy with the belts while the car was running. They were very comfortable. They didn't seem like they got in the way of someone getting in the back seat due to the low point as well. I will most likely keep them the way they were. BTW, your belts look good there Superman.
 
"Havok1" said:
Your absolutely right Steve. I was completely happy with the belts while the car was running. They were very comfortable. They didn't seem like they got in the way of someone getting in the back seat due to the low point as well. I will most likely keep them the way they were. BTW, your belts look good there Superman.
Click to expand...

Too bad I got Dunlop Syndrome going on. Gotta get back on that diet.
 
Unfortunately one of his super powers is that he can lift a Muffaletta 4X his own wt. :lol

Just kidding Steve,
See in the first pic how the belt is all curled up on the floor when you're out of the car, I would like mine to pull back taught against the pillar post so that there isn't belt or buckle laying on the floor or hanging out the door when I shut it. So I'm trying to figure out what length to order to have it pull back tight like any car from ~'80> does.
 
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