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Being the computer illiterate that I am...why

A

Anonymous

Guest
is it that I don't need to enter the site login info every time I visit S-F, but if I go away and come back (without emptying cache or cookies) I have to re-type the password to the VGOFL?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
What kind of stupid question is that?? Same reason everyone else does....pornaholic, that and I'm paranoid about the ATF tracking my every move :2guns
 

AtlantaSteve

Active Member
"silverblueBP" said:
is it that I don't need to enter the site login info every time I visit S-F, but if I go away and come back (without emptying cache or cookies) I have to re-type the password to the VGOFL?
This discussion will get highly technical.  I will try to start simple, but as I go along, it'll get worse :)

The difference is "Session" versus "Cookies." And where the passwords are stored.

Cookies are little "crumbs" of data that your browser (in a very controlled manner) allows a website to put onto your computer.  Basically they are a "database."  When you log into StangFix and tell it to remember your Username/Password, S-Fputs a little piece of data in your Cookie DB that says "silverblueBP logged on...always trust him."  So when you come back the next time, S-F asks your browser "Hey, do you have that little piece of data that will tell me who you are?" and your browser responds "Why yes I do, and it says that I am silverblueBP, and you should trust me without making me re-enter username password."  So S-F automatically logs you in, and presents you the pages.

A "Session" is different, and the passwords to the password protected forums are stored in Session.  So, when you first come to S-F, after opening your browser, it asks your browser "Do you have a sessionID assigned to you yet?"  THe browser responds "nosir I don't" and S-F will reply "OK then your SessionID is now XYZ" where XYZ is some unique number.   Every user gets their own SessionID for each time they start browsing S-F.   Once you have been issues a SessionID, your browser will always, when asking for a webpage say "Hey, give me this page, and BTW, I am running with SessionID XYZ"  Now the server knows each time, that it was you.  As you do things, the server saves in memory that your SessionID did that thing.  So, for example, when you type the password to get into VGOFL, the server says "Session XYZ has correctly input this password, so for the remainder of the life of XYZ, do not force him to type that password in again."   As long as you keep "touching" the server (That is, clicking on links, going to forums, posting things, etc) the server remembers your SessionID and what stuff has been set on that Session.   After a timeout period (usually 30 minutes to an hour, but every site is different) the server says "OK, SessionID XYZ hasn't bothered talking to me for so long I'm going to throw his session away."  At the same time, when you close your webbrowser, it forgets the session ID it was assigned.  SessionID's are NOT persistent.  So when you close your browser, next time you go back to the server, it will ask "Do you have a SessionID?" and your browser will respond "Nosir I don't" and you are issued a new ID.

So if you come onto S-F and are issued SessionID 123, and you go into VGOFL, then you are good.  However, if you close your browser, and IMMEDIATELY open a new browser window, and come right back in, you will be issued a new SessionID, say 456.  When you then try to go back into VGOFL eventhough the server is still remembering that 123 had correctly input the password(as it waits for the timeout to expire), you are reporting yourself now as 456, and are thus forced to log in again.

So, theoretically, COULD the fact that you correctly input the password for VGOFL be saved in the cookies, thus not forcing you to type it in again?  Yes, certainly.   However, that's not how the site is setup and built, so it doesn't.

I hope I didn't get too technical...I tried to keep it high-level, but I spend my days dealing with the inner plumbing of web sites and web servers and sessions and cookies, so when I spend my days down in the dirt, it's hard for me to keep it high level.

Steve
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve,

That was the most concise, well thought, well written explanation for how something works that I've ever read! Now I understand how it works.

I still think it sucks ass, but at least I know WHY it sucks ass :skull :naug
 

Midlife

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
The bad thing is that the default password for all passworded forums is the last password you used, regardless of which forum. It's too bad the software in Firefox can't save each individual password, since the forums have different passwords.
 

cmayna

DILLIGARA?
Donator
You're all a bunch of brain dead parrots, for cookies are supposed to be dipped in Milk and then eaten. Who raised the bunch of you anyway?
 

blue65coupe

Well-Known Member
Mark, just install google chrome and open the "incognito" window. Then you don't have to worry about history or cookies.
 

Midlife

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
"blue65coupe" said:
Mark, just install google chrome and open the "incognito" window. Then you don't have to worry about history or cookies.
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
"blue65coupe" said:
Mark, just install google chrome and open the "incognito" window. Then you don't have to worry about history or cookies.
You do know Google's taking over the world right?
 

Sluggo

Active Member
"AtlantaSteve" said:
This discussion will get highly technical. I will try to start simple, but as I go along, it'll get worse :)

The difference is "Session" versus "Cookies." And where the passwords are stored.

Cookies are little "crumbs" of data that your browser (in a very controlled manner) allows a website to put onto your computer. Basically they are a "database." When you log into StangFix and tell it to remember your Username/Password, S-Fputs a little piece of data in your Cookie DB that says "silverblueBP logged on...always trust him." So when you come back the next time, S-F asks your browser "Hey, do you have that little piece of data that will tell me who you are?" and your browser responds "Why yes I do, and it says that I am silverblueBP, and you should trust me without making me re-enter username password." So S-F automatically logs you in, and presents you the pages.

A "Session" is different, and the passwords to the password protected forums are stored in Session. So, when you first come to S-F, after opening your browser, it asks your browser "Do you have a sessionID assigned to you yet?" THe browser responds "nosir I don't" and S-F will reply "OK then your SessionID is now XYZ" where XYZ is some unique number. Every user gets their own SessionID for each time they start browsing S-F. Once you have been issues a SessionID, your browser will always, when asking for a webpage say "Hey, give me this page, and BTW, I am running with SessionID XYZ" Now the server knows each time, that it was you. As you do things, the server saves in memory that your SessionID did that thing. So, for example, when you type the password to get into VGOFL, the server says "Session XYZ has correctly input this password, so for the remainder of the life of XYZ, do not force him to type that password in again." As long as you keep "touching" the server (That is, clicking on links, going to forums, posting things, etc) the server remembers your SessionID and what stuff has been set on that Session. After a timeout period (usually 30 minutes to an hour, but every site is different) the server says "OK, SessionID XYZ hasn't bothered talking to me for so long I'm going to throw his session away." At the same time, when you close your webbrowser, it forgets the session ID it was assigned. SessionID's are NOT persistent. So when you close your browser, next time you go back to the server, it will ask "Do you have a SessionID?" and your browser will respond "Nosir I don't" and you are issued a new ID.

So if you come onto S-F and are issued SessionID 123, and you go into VGOFL, then you are good. However, if you close your browser, and IMMEDIATELY open a new browser window, and come right back in, you will be issued a new SessionID, say 456. When you then try to go back into VGOFL eventhough the server is still remembering that 123 had correctly input the password(as it waits for the timeout to expire), you are reporting yourself now as 456, and are thus forced to log in again.

So, theoretically, COULD the fact that you correctly input the password for VGOFL be saved in the cookies, thus not forcing you to type it in again? Yes, certainly. However, that's not how the site is setup and built, so it doesn't.

I hope I didn't get too technical...I tried to keep it high-level, but I spend my days dealing with the inner plumbing of web sites and web servers and sessions and cookies, so when I spend my days down in the dirt, it's hard for me to keep it high level.

Steve
Hmmmm......there may be a troubleshooter/webmaster's helper gig in your future......
 

AzPete

Well-Known Member
"Sluggo" said:
Hmmmm......there may be a troubleshooter/webmaster's helper gig in your future......
I must disagree here. I just spent the morning on the phone with Dell and believe me, that problem solving listed above has all the wrong accent to it. It must :rulez have a serious third world tang to it. Sorry, I see no job potential.......
 

AtlantaSteve

Active Member
"AzPete" said:
I must disagree here. I just spent the morning on the phone with Dell and believe me, that problem solving listed above has all the wrong accent to it. It must :rulez have a serious third world tang to it. Sorry, I see no job potential.......

Thank you! Please call again!

Sluggo, anytime you need me.

Steve
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If you re-read (out loud) Steve's plain engrish in Apu's voice.......it's hysterical :rofl :rofl
 
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