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EFI Upgrade

J

JonnybravoM3

Member
Hi all

So my 65 Mustang has a BP crate 302(306) and I'm running a FiTech GoStreet 400 and an in-tank pump (GPA-4).

Car has not been too happy lately, vibrating under load, etc, there is an uneven distribution of fuel to the cylinders, can tell just by feeling the temperature on the back and front of the block.

This, added with the fact that the FiTech system can't be properly tuned via laptop, my mechanic is strongly suggesting me to go with a Holley HP ECU and an 8-injector set up.

Anyone done this to their classics and are you happy with the results? Is the car happier?

Thanks! JB

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It's early so excuse my ignorance but I can't figure out what the "BP" is in terms of your crate engine. Can't place the name.

Anyway, I'm running the same FiTech on my 347 with a stupid cam and a great set of Trick Flow heads and the same fuel pump. I have never seen any of the issues you describe. The whole feeling the temperature thing is also kinda weird. Anyway, the only issue with the FiTech (especially early purchasers) is limited adjustment of many parameters via the supplied handheld. You can datalog though and then share that info with FiTech to get some guidance on how to correct stuff. I will be doing that myself soon as I think I have done all I can on my own.

FiTech systems seem to like to run to the very rich side of things and need to be "tricked" sometimes to be leaned out to a more correct mixture. You can find a lot about these systems on the Web. There are some great YouTube videos and also a FaceBook group dedicated to them.

Going to a different set-up with port injection would obviously give your tuner more familiar control for adjustment. It is also a "better" system from a performance standpoint. Just not sure it is needed as much as you need someone more familiar with the FiTech.
 
Thanks for your input. Very helpful indeed. BP is BluePrint, so I bought my Crate engine from BluePrint. JB

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I guess I should have asked earlier if you are using the FiTech to control your ignition timing. I do not use that function and most users of this basic unit do not. I am running a Pertronix distributor with the Ignitor ii system that controls my spark. Your comment about vibrating struck me as possibly more a timing issue than fuel. I'll guess your engine is a basic 4 barrel, dual plane design. Likely not even completely divided. The Fitech is a glorified electronic carburetor that is simply supplying an air/fuel mixture into the intake plenum. The individual pistons are drawing that mixture into the cylinders via suction on their downward intake stroke. Each cylinder has access to that mixture equally. The only way I would blame the FiTech for poor fuel distribution is if you could determine that the cylinders all being fed by one side or the other of the intake branches are affected. Even then, this would indicate that an injector was malfunctioning and failing to provide the necessary fuel but I would think the handheld would show such a fault. Has your mechanic checked to see if there are any codes or faults?

I would have him get in direct contact with the Help Staff at FiTech before I made the decision to swap out to a new system.

Just some thoughts that might help
 
Don't know anything about this system but first I would check fuel pressure under load. What do you mean with :
JonnybravoM3 said:
can tell just by feeling the temperature on the back and front of the block.
Click to expand...
? only water passage through the block brings up the temp and when back and front is different .....the headgasket are mounted the wrong way ??? Can't explain it in an other way .
Did you check vacuum leak of the intake ?? That could be the cause of "vibrating under load " . Spray some brake cleaner on the intake gaskets.
my 2 eurocent
 
Good thoughts, Bruno, but he's had this car running a while now without overheating issues so I'd bet the head gaskets are correct. Vacuum leak is a real possibility.

I'd also ask your mechanic to pull all the spark plugs and "read" them to see how each cylinder is doing. If I recall your mechanic is much more at home playing around with exotic super cars and such, right? This may not be something he is used to doing but on old iron like this its the best way to diagnose a lot of issues.
 
Horseplay said:
Good thoughts, Bruno, but he's had this car running a while now without overheating issues so I'd bet the head gaskets are correct. Vacuum leak is a real possibility.

I'd also ask your mechanic to pull all the spark plugs and "read" them to see how each cylinder is doing. If I recall your mechanic is much more at home playing around with exotic super cars and such, right? This may not be something he is used to doing but on old iron like this its the best way to diagnose a lot of issues.
Click to expand...
Hi, oh no i changed garages. My mechanic now has a lot of experience with classic American, especially Mustangs. He suggested this route for me because he has the same issues with a classic challenger and this fixed it perfectly.

He prefers to work from a laptop, and so prefers to use a Holley system so that he can use his laptop and make required adjustments.

Plus he is of the school that, if you want to stay carb, stay carb but if you want to go EFI, do it right. He doesn't believe in these self learning systems.

I'll pass your valuable comments over though.

Thanks a bunch.

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Sounds like you have the right guy on the case. And he's not "wrong" about EFI systems either. The FiTech stuff is entry level tech for sure. It's just throttle body injection which is old school in itself. BUT...for less than a grand you get something easy to install, offers decent performance and takes away all the issues a carburetor can present at times.

I'll move my car over to a more advanced system before too long likely but for now I'm just enjoying the ride!
 
This is the reason I chose to go with Ford's SEFI system. It had millions of dollars of R&D and was used in many cars and trucks for quite some time. Yes, it takes away the classic old school look, but some of us are ok with that. Short of a distributor problem at the start, it was plug and play and has worked flawlessly for quite a few years now. But it did cost me well north of the $1,000 mark.....just don't tell the wife.
 
Horseplay said:
I am running a Pertronix distributor with the Ignitor ii system that controls my spark.
Click to expand...
Sorry, Jonny, I've got to hijack for a moment here. Terry, Pertronix says to bypass the resistor wire, so the coil is running at 12v. Stock coils aren't designed to run at 12v continuously and should overheat, and yet I've read that their Flamethrower coils have an overheating problem and don't last. What do you do?
 
Mach1 Driver said:
Sorry, Jonny, I've got to hijack for a moment here. Terry, Pertronix says to bypass the resistor wire, so the coil is running at 12v. Stock coils aren't designed to run at 12v continuously and should overheat, and yet I've read that their Flamethrower coils have an overheating problem and don't last. What do you do?
Click to expand...
I turn the key and drive. Haven't had any issues. Full voltage to the coil as my custom built harness has no resistance feature built in. Granted, it's not a daily driver but I put on over 800 miles last summer/fall and am back on the road again for this season. Maybe I should carry a spare just in case?

As long as we are in hi-jack mode, let me add something else for anyone that might run a FiTech EFI. They state that you should not use a multi-spark type ignition system with it as their system might have difficulty discerning the spark signal that it uses to determine the engine timing, etc. I had originally installed an Ignitor iii unit and things ran fine but I had an issue that I thought might be spark related so I yanked the iii and put in the ii that is in it now and...same deal. Turned out it wasn't the Pertronix. So in my experience you can run the Ignitor iii and have all it's benefits with the FiTech. Which reminds me, I need to swap that back in!
 
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You've got the original, basic Pertronix set-up. It is tried and proven. The Ignitor ii goes a step further and has a few extra features and the iii is like a full on MSD box type operation that does it all including multi-spark and rev limiting.
 
Horseplay said:
They state that you should not use a multi-spark type ignition system with it as their system might have difficulty discerning the spark signal that it uses to determine the engine timing, etc. I had originally installed an Ignitor iii unit and things ran fine but I had an issue that I thought might be spark related so I yanked the iii and put in the ii that is in it now and...same deal. Turned out it wasn't the Pertronix. So in my experience you can run the Ignitor iii and have all it's benefits with the FiTech. Which reminds me, I need to swap that back in!
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What I intend to try is a Pertronix II with a Pertronix 600 Digital Rev Limiter ($145.47). The limiter has an output that is a clean square wave for the EFI and tach. That should solve the issue with multiple sparks from the "III" but I'll still have the benefit a the rev limiter and a clean output. If anyone has tried this I would sure appreciate a shout-out on the results.
 
If you are planning to use a FiTech unit it has a rev limiting function of its own so combined with the basic Ignitor ii you wouldn't need to add the Pertronix rev limiter. You could save a few bucks.
 
Horseplay said:
If you are planning to use a FiTech unit it has a rev limiting function of its own so combined with the basic Ignitor ii you wouldn't need to add the Pertronix rev limiter. You could save a few bucks.
Click to expand...
Huh, I didn't know that, but no I'm going with Sniper. I'll look to see if it has a rev limiting function. Thanks.
 
I spoke with Holley tech. Sniper will rev limit when in timing control mode. They say that Snipers are really intended for use with aftermarket distributors and I assume that FiTechs are also. Stock distributors can be made to work in timing control mode but since vacuum and mechanical advances would need to be locked out, it really doesn't make sense to do that just for rev limit control. However, Holley tech leads me to believe that my original plan to use a Pertronix II with a Pertronix rev limiter should work, and allow me to use the stock distributor to do timing control, while the rev limiter does its thing. This will allow it to retain its stock look...unless someone lifts its skirt (the air cleaner) to see the EFI ;)
 
This is the car my mechanic built and continues to maintain.

He told me in fact he tried it with EFI but went back to carb because he was able to get more power out of the carb.
7c02b57a69d00428e62d67102127b3e9.jpg


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I've seen a couple demonstrations where engine builders outfit the same engine with a carb and then a basic EFI system like a FiTech or Sniper and then compare the results on a dyno. Usually very close but the carb does win out by a few H.P. Thing to note though is these are always old school guys who really know how to tune a carb. Also, it's in a dyno room with the carb perfectly dialed in for that session's conditions. I guess my point being the main reason guys go to EFI is not about peak performance as much as turn key simplicity in everyday driving yet those same systems can run neck and neck with a pro tuned carb. Like everything else you have to choose whatever checks most of your boxes as nothing is the perfect answer.
 
True and that is why I was actually contemplating going back to carb because it's far easier to tune than the piggy back FiTech.

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