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Engine/trans Help recommendations

6

68angrypony

Member
As my restoration has evolved to more money and cost, I find myself having to pull the motor back out to paint the engine bay. Since the clutch hasn't been engaging anyways, it will allow me to investigate the issue. I am considering swapping transmissions and I wanted some recommendations on what my options are. Right now I have a 351c attached to the 4 speed t-10 transmission that was attached to the 289 i pulled out of the car. Here are some bullet point facts:

1. Have only rolled through the gears on the trans with the car parked. Never driven on the current trans but I am assuming its in working order

2. Motor was used when I purchased it and has an edelbrock intake and carb. Past that, I have no idea whats been done on the inside of the motor. Sounds pretty healthy though

3. motor is coming out and it seems this would be a great time to upgrade from what i have that should work to something that would be a more permanent unit so I can have a final location for a shifter to possible build a custom console around it or use a factory one if I can get it to fit.

I would love a 6 speed, but would be ok with a 5 speed. What would be my best bet to go with? What type of fabrication would be needed with what? Would any 5 or 6 speeds work with the bell housing I have now? Any factory transmissions I can look to get my hands on like a corvette trans etc?
 
If you have a warm fuzzy feeling about the Cleveland then why not go with it? I'd go with a TKO gear box or a T5Z which is what I'm running behind my Cleveland.
 
That T10 will not hold up behind a 351C unless you drive like your granny.
 
"Midlife" said:
That T10 will not hold up behind a 351C unless you drive like your granny.
Click to expand...

Dunno why you'd say that Randy. The T10 held up fine with up to 352, 390 and 427 big blocks well before a toploader ever came along!
 
Yes, but those were production cars, not designed for spirited driving with stroked engines. And why do you think Ford developed the toploader? Because the T10 wasn't cutting the mustard.
 
"Midlife" said:
Yes, but those were production cars, not designed for spirited driving with stroked engines. And why do you think Ford developed the toploader? Because the T10 wasn't cutting the mustard.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delayed replied. Ummm, the 427 wasn't exactly a low powered lawn mower engine. The T10 also equipped most drag cars. The T10 has long held it's own. Because a better design (the toploader), came along doesn't mean the T10 was a turd. Using your logic Randy, the toploader wasn't "cutting the mustard" so Ford went to the T5? Normal progressive development is the answer to "why?".
 
Um, the toploader is an outstanding transmission, but so to is the T10. Properly built the T10 will do every bit the work that a toploader will.

The toploader was built to compete with the Muncie rock crusher that GM had out at the time.

The T5 was an answer to get better MPG and in it's first incarnation was pretty much junk. I saw one blow apart when a hard 2nd gear shift was made. I do mean blow apart. Nothing but little pieces from an early fox body CHP car.

The T5 was improved and then came the TKO and others. Now there are all kinds of choices. Manual transmissions are going to become rare soon. It seems that you can get better MPG with very specific trans control from a computer and lots of gears to keep you engine in the sweet spot power and torque range.

Anyway, I like my T5 and my TKO and I have had a couple T10s, a toploader and a Muncie. My favorite is the TKO. Out of the four speeds I think I like the Muncie then a tie between the T10 and toploader. I never was able to break any of them. The Toploader 3 spd with the long tail shaft, I must have broken 8-10 times. No syncro in first coupled with a being a teen driver is a bad combination.

Just my .02

Mel
 
Mel I dunno if your comment about a T10 being outstanding was for me or Randy. I was just throwing out an example of the T5 off the top of my head (properly a poor choice for the point I was going for).

I have a T10 in one of my Stangs, friend has a T10 in his, his brother has one in a '71 Vette with a 454. Never seen any of'm break and they've been driven pretty damn hard through the years....and I do mean HARD! My friend has trashed some shifters, but never the tranny!

And yes, the toploader is a great tranny!
 
My comment wasn't directed to anyone. I was merely making some observations from personal experience.

I did enjoy the Muncie behind the 396 in a 70 El Camino I had.

I would kill for a TKO 6spd in any V8 powered vehicle.

Mel
 
I have a close ratio Muncie M21 in my '65 El Camino. It's been there over 30 years with just a basic rebuild and a change over from the aluminum to cast iron midplate. It originally came out of a 74 big block 'vette... Although fairly good, I don't think it's indestructible.
The cast iron midplate is supposed to help with thrust loads and main case distortion. I also have a Borg Warner Super T10 that has better street gearing, but since I've blown two of those in the past, I'm a little reluctant to rebuild it for anything more than a street driver. The Super T10 was the upgraded replacement to the T10...both are aluminum cases like the Muncie's. The ST10 has higher nickel content in the gears, but I think that was to save cost on heat treating the gears. I don't think it added much strength overall. In any event, my belief is that the toploader is still one of the best 4 speed transmissions... probably due to its cast iron case and larger diameter input / output shafts. You just don't hear much about folks blowing Top loaders.
I never used an old T10, but my understanding is much like Midlife's that the T10 wasn't built for performance. It seems that the Muncies and Toploader took over during the peak muscle car years and Borg Warner was brought back when torque levels dropped. That's just an observation...

Back to the OPs question... the T5 / T5Z is probably the easiest install but it might not handle the 351s torque if you thrash on it. T5 is supposed to be good for ~400 HP is you don't slam gears... don't shock it and you should be fine. Street tires versus sticky tires will help a lot. If you get a used T5, look for one with the 2.95 gear set as opposed to the 3.35:1 gears. It'll handle more torque... and if it is a factory built T5Z I believe it has a stronger bearing retainer in the mid plate. Pretty easy to add if it doesn't have one.
 
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