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Front end alignment

Aggiesrok

New Member
I’ve got a 67 coupe, 289, C4, 9 in rear

I’ve replaced upper and lower control arms, shocks, spindles, tie rod ends, eccentric bolts.
But I have a consistent problem with the right front wearing out the tire, left also but not as bad. I buy two new tires and have it aligned and seems like less than 10k miles the tires are toast almost overnight. The alignment shop is an old shop and one of few that does classic cars, they have laser equipment too. It’s a reputable shop, it seems to lose its setting. And he torqued the hell out of it since I’ve pointed out the problem.
The car is a daily but isn’t raced and is typically driven short distances in town. There doesn’t appear to be anything weak or loose. It is manual steering and an original gear box.
What could cause it to just lose alignment?


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How are the tires wearing? Pics would help a lot. Bear in mind, the original alignment could be off leading to the wear so it is not necessarily "losing" alignment. The tire wear on even a really bad alignment doesn't happen overnight.
 
How are the tires wearing? Pics would help a lot. Bear in mind, the original alignment could be off leading to the wear so it is not necessarily "losing" alignment. The tire wear on even a really bad alignment doesn't happen overnight.

It just seems to happen quickly. These pics are from the previous issue. It seems to be camber each time. Currently I think it’s outside wear, I’ll get some current pics later.
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Here are the current pics. Left isn’t too bad but right is starting to wear the outside. Tires don’t have enough miles to be so worn
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Wow, that's a lot of wear, and is not just from camber. Improper toe is causing that. Basically the tires are riding sideways down the pavement. Because the camber is negative, this wear is focused on the inside of the tire.

First thing I'd look at is your steering. Check everything for play. Any play in the steering is going to allow the toe to change while going down the road.

Then check the suspension to make sure ball joints and control arm bushings aren't sloppy.

Then, and this is the most important part, get a new freaking alignment shop. Any good alignment shop should be able to find the problem in short order. Also, 67s are super simple to align. Unlike 65-66, they don't require shims, so any good shop should be able to do it.
 
As a follow up, I used to sell tires and do alignments. I'd warranty tires like that if we did the alignment on the car at time of sale, and have words with the alignment tech.
 
Wow, that's a lot of wear, and is not just from camber. Improper toe is causing that. Basically the tires are riding sideways down the pavement. Because the camber is negative, this wear is focused on the inside of the tire.

First thing I'd look at is your steering. Check everything for play. Any play in the steering is going to allow the toe to change while going down the road.

Then check the suspension to make sure ball joints and control arm bushings aren't sloppy.

Then, and this is the most important part, get a new freaking alignment shop. Any good alignment shop should be able to find the problem in short order. Also, 67s are super simple to align. Unlike 65-66, they don't require shims, so any good shop should be able to do it.

Thanks for the input. I feel like it’s either the steering or something structural that isn’t easily seen. The steering is original and probably worn out. I’ve added grease and adjusted the steering box, but has some slop in it.
The upper and lowers have been replaced fairly recently and torqued to spec.


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Like Starfury said, play. If upper and lower control arms are replaced and torque to specs, still check for play.
Steering , yes. Look for play in steering linkage expecially the centerlink and idler arm. Look for up and down movement of the centerlink/draglink.
I believe you have to have 1/8 toe in .
A good alignmentshop should see or check out the front suspension and steeringlinkage prior the actual alignment.
So back to the alignmentshop I would say and show him the result.
 
Tad nailed it. That looks like wear from really bad toe. 1/8" is as much as you want. I set mine up at about half that. Could also happen do to slop in the steering set-up which would allow more toe to happen. Camber can eventually lead to uneven wear from side to side of a tire but it takes a long time and would never be that dramatic. I'll post up a pic of my car in a bit but I run A LOT of negative camber and after thousands of miles the tires show no sign of wear like that and I drive it hard into any corner I can! I am also running a very soft compound tire which would wear much faster than a typical street tire.

Bottom line is whoever is doing your alignment is not good at it and/or didn't find what must be very obvious problem(s) with your front end. You need a new guy! Or better yet, do it yourself. You can buy the necessary tool(s) for about $150. Like Tad wrote, alignments on a '67 are pretty easy.
 
And dont forget to use new or evenly worn tyres when you do the alignment. If you set it up on badly worn tyres, you are setting it TO the current wear.
 
Can putting jack stands under the frame at the connection points for the lower control arms cause a slight spreading and losing the alignment?


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Alignment must be done with the car's weight fully on the tires and suspension: no jack stands.
 
Alignment must be done with the car's weight fully on the tires and suspension: no jack stands.

I understand that. I’m asking if I can mess up the alignment by placing the car on jack stands where the lower control arms are adjusted.


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The alignment is mechanically "locked in" when all the associated fasteners are tightened. Your lower control arms feature an eccentric that is rotated to make camber adjustment. I suppose depending on where the car's weight rests on the stand it's possible to force movement there. It is certainly not the correct place to be positioning jack stands.

Again, a pic showing exactly what you mean would be helpful. It sounds as if you or someone else is blaming this as the cause of your tire wear issue. I don't think it is...at least not exclusively. Is there accident history with this car?
 
The alignment is mechanically "locked in" when all the associated fasteners are tightened. Your lower control arms feature an eccentric that is rotated to make camber adjustment. I suppose depending on where the car's weight rests on the stand it's possible to force movement there. It is certainly not the correct place to be positioning jack stands.

Again, a pic showing exactly what you mean would be helpful. It sounds as if you or someone else is blaming this as the cause of your tire wear issue. I don't think it is...at least not exclusively. Is there accident history with this car?

I’ve placed stands under the eccentric bolt resting on the frame in the past. My thought now is that it’s allowing the cam to move. I just replaced front tires that were worn to the steel on the outside. After replacing tires I get an alignment. As stated in the first post, nearly all front components have been replaced in the last few years. Steering box, center link and pitman arm only things not replaced.
Alignment shop said to drive around a week or so and come back to check for changes. I changed the oil and started wondering if I’m causing the issue by jacking up the car and placement of the jack stands. Just sick of this recurring tire issue.


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Why are you using that jack point? The better place is the frame rail just aft of the lower control arm where the rail gets flat. This is just forward of the door jamb. Putting jack stands on any movable element of the suspension is simply a bad idea. Can it affect alignment? Possibly but can't be sure.
 
Why are you using that jack point? The better place is the frame rail just aft of the lower control arm where the rail gets flat. This is just forward of the door jamb. Putting jack stands on any movable element of the suspension is simply a bad idea. Can it affect alignment? Possibly but can't be sure.

I’ve been pissed about this tire deal for a while. I’ve been the problem all along lol. I’ve used the frame bar behind the oil pan as a jacking point and that’s probably not a good idea either. I do know not to use the oil pan for jacking the car and tearing the motor mount rubber. I guess I really just need to get a lift.


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Yeah, don't use the stock front crossmember as a lift point to jack up the car. It is not designed to be used that way. All cars have designated points where a jack should be used based on the structural integrity, etc. of the vehicle. Bad things happen when you start lifting upwards of a thousand pounds or more in the wrong place!
 
What are the current alignment specs? Are they setting them for Bias ply tires, like originally equipped?
 
What are the current alignment specs? Are they setting them for Bias ply tires, like originally equipped?

Not sure what they’re using for specs. This shop has been around for a long time. The problem has been inconsistent in that it’s been severe toe in and then severe toe out wear.
I’m pretty confident that I have caused this problem with jacking and jack stand locations unfortunately. I’m not going to jack up the car at all before driving it a while and taking it back to the shop for a recheck.


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