HELP-Timing is 180 degrees off on my upper engine build

[1965Mustang]

A few clarifications to get rid of the obvious. I know the firing order for a 93 HO roller and a standard roller are different. The cam and crank marks were lined up as they should be. I have a Comp Xtreme cam. Called Comp and was told could not be the cam and would only go in one way. The harmonic balancer is the one that came off the engine and can only be put on one way. Crank is same crank. New Trickflow heads. When the #1 and #6 pistons are at TDC the timing shows off 180 degrees. Yet when #5 piston is TDC, the timing is where it should be. I am baffled unless the valves are adjusted wrong. New MSD distributor appears to be lined up correctly. Someone tell me what I am missing or how stupid I am being if you have the correct answer. I'll take the ribbing to hear this thing run! Thanks,

 

[Midlife]

It could be you're mis-numbering the pistons. #1 is the forward-most on the passenger side.

 

[Anonymous]

First off, is the motor assembled?

 

[SAC69]

When the #1 and #6 pistons are at TDC the timing shows off 180 degrees. Yet when #5 piston is TDC, the timing is where it should be.

Are you sure you're not confusing TDC with the top of the exhaust stroke? That would place it 180 out.

 

[1965Mustang]

It could be you're mis-numbering the pistons. #1 is the forward-most on the passenger side.

Not the problem and you are correct. #1 is nearest radiator on the passenger side and #6 is the second from front on the driver side. Thanks.

 

[1965Mustang]

Are you sure you're not confusing TDC with the top of the exhaust stroke? That would place it 180 out.

I don't think so. I turned the engine over until #1 blew my finger off the spark plug hole, then used a rod to measure the depth, checked the timing mark, then did the same thing to #6 and checked the depth on that one. When 1 was at tdc it was 180 off and when #6 was at tdc and #1 was down it was still 180 off. If there is a better or more accurate way, I am definitely open to any suggestion. The engine is in the car and hoped to start it today. I am going to pull the passenger side valve cover off tomorrow (since it is the only one I can get to without removing all the efi stuff) and be sure the valves are adjusted for the HO firing sequence. A friend who is helping thinks that might be the problem but I cannot see how. If I am not thinking straight, please let me know. I am open.

 

[buckeyedemon]

is your cam a 351w or 302 firing order? comp sold me a cam for my 289 and the cam card clearly indicated a 302 firing order, yet it was really a 351w firing order.

it's easy to check if you watch the valves.

 

[1965Mustang]

Valves are first on the list tomorrow along with being 100% sure MSD distributor is lined up correctly again. Hopefully the valves are adjusted for the standard firing order and not the HO which might make it appear to be the opposite from what is actually happening. I hope this is the problem. Thanks.

 

[Horseplay]

I don't understand how you think your valves could be adjusted wrong. The cam determines when they function. You can't use rocker adjustment to make them open and close at different intervals. You either have a cam ground to the wrong firing order or you somehow are misjudging top dead center. I'm guessing your cam is the culprit.

 

[jims6t6]

I don't understand how you think your valves could be adjusted wrong. The cam determines when they function. You can't use rocker adjustment to make them open and close at different intervals. You either have a cam ground to the wrong firing order or you somehow are misjudging top dead center. I'm guessing your cam is the culprit.

+ 1

 

[blue65coupe]

I don't understand how you think your valves could be adjusted wrong. The cam determines when they function. You can't use rocker adjustment to make them open and close at different intervals. You either have a cam ground to the wrong firing order or you somehow are misjudging top dead center. I'm guessing your cam is the culprit.

+2

 

[jmbour66]

I believe there can only be 2 possible firing orders with a stock crank: 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8 or 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8, (The piston rise and fall is determined by the crank, firing order is determined by the Cam)

I would find TDC on number 1, set my distributor and then try both....... :shrug

 

[1965Mustang]

OK, guys. Thanks for all the info, advice, and questioning my reasoning but I got my car cranked today. Everything most of you said was exactly correct. The stupidity was all on me. Lesson well learned. Thanks to all of you with much more wisdom than me.

 

[Anonymous]

What EFI are you using? If its sequential and your injector phasing is off, it will not idle correct and will be a bitch to tune.

 

[buckeyedemon]

OK, guys. Thanks for all the info, advice, and questioning my reasoning but I got my car cranked today. Everything most of you said was exactly correct. The stupidity was all on me. Lesson well learned. Thanks to all of you with much more wisdom than me.

so what was the problem?

 

[blue65coupe]

so what was the problem?

That's what I want to know. There are two rules around here:

1. Pictures

2. Admit mistakes and explain. It helps us pick on you, I mean learn, for future reference.

 

[1965Mustang]

What EFI are you using? If its sequential and your injector phasing is off, it will not idle correct and will be a bitch to tune.

This is interesting but I am lost as to what you are saying. I am using a Trickfow intake and plenum and it is not idling correctly. It is actually idling too low.

 

[1965Mustang]

This is interesting but I am lost as to what you are saying. I am using a Trickfow intake and plenum and it is not idling correctly. It is actually idling too low.
[/quote]

There was not an actual problem except my stupidity and painting something that should not have been painted. The timing was correct all along. If you like pictures, here is one I think I have I have discussed that I am trying to work out now so if any suggestions weigh in. The problem is th angle is so small and there is only 1/2" between intake and hood.

 

[stangg]

This is interesting but I am lost as to what you are saying. I am using a Trickfow intake and plenum and it is not idling correctly. It is actually idling too low.

What he was saying is that if you have sequential EFI then the injectors are timed to spray in the same firing order as the ignition. If you have a computer from a non HO car that used a different firing order, then some of your fuel injectors may be spraying during the wrong part of the cycle.