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Historic Flying Boat Detectives I need help.........

A

Anonymous

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For those that want to help. Here's what I have. My Grandfather was in the Navy during WWI. While in the service he was part of the first transatlantic flight and was stationed on one of the ships that I think was in Plymouth England when the flight was completed. This prop/fan has been passed down to me and I guess it's time to validate it or turn it into scrap. I sent an e-mail to the Buehler Library in Pensacola Florida and they responded that to their knowledge only single bladed fans were used and they had no record of a 4 bladed used. Crap! After receiving this information I sent an e-mail and the photos to the Curator at the Curtiss Museum in New York. I was informed by him that this prop/fan would be like one that would have been used on a early electric fan and not on an aircraft. Crap again. I then spent about three hours looking at early fans from 1906 to around 1940. After viewing about 300 fans I noticed that ALL of them had a "stamped" center hub that the blades were attached, none had a machined hub with screw in blades. I then sent another e-mail to the Buehler and requested they take a second look as my grandpa was a very serious all the time type person and I certainly didn't think he was inaccurate about his story. To my surprise I received a second e-mail from the volunteer researcher at Buehler library. He stated that they were able to find a note that was made in a report or log by Richardson, it reads as follows.......

Mike: I have located a part of a report by Holden Richardson (Pilot of the
NC-3 that did not make the complete transplant journey). He was also a
"Naval Constructor" who had a significant say in the basic engineering and
changes to the aircraft being developed for the Navy.

We may have a complete report by Richardson, but I cannot locate it as of
today. The interesting statement (on the located page 25) is item #6 - Gas
pumps as follows: "The relocated gas pumps functioned satisfactorily and
particularly the four-bladed windmills gave smoother action."

I believe this makes your point, although we have no engineering details of
such a change. Our two bladed (metal) wind fans were evidently replaced
based on observed problems at least for the three fuel pumps (a hold-over
from the original 3 engine NC design. The film clip you referenced did not
provide enough clarity for me to identify any wind driven blades in the pix.
Sorry. I also do not know if they also changed from 2 to 4 blades on the
wind driven generator. At least we both now know that a 4 blade fan was used
on at least NC-3 that was piloted by Richardson.

Finally some evidence that backs up my grandpa's story but here's where I stand now. I have looked all over the internet and I can't find a decent photo of NC4 or NC3 that shows this prop with clarity. I have been able to find a video or two that shows what appears to be the prop on NC3. It's at the 2:45 time mark and can be seen as the small boat passes behind the aircraft. "IF" any you guys want to play history detective I can use the help. Here's the video and photos.
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... d-aircraft
 

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I forgot to mention this prop (or one like it) would be in the #2 position in the still photo and you will know where to look in the video. Also there was a fellow Stangfixer that I owe much thanks to. I owe you one.
 
The video in the link you posted clearly shows at least two of the fans. Both have two blades. Check it out at 2:49. I'll look around and see what I have. I have a copy of a pretty limited printing of Coast Guard aircraft. While I realize the NC aircraft were Navy, one of the pilots of NC-4 was Elmer F. Stone.... a Coastie! He is listed as Naval Aviator #38, and Coast Guard Aviator #1. As such, there may be some photos in there.

I found several better shots in this video:
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675074472_Navy-NC-flying-boats_Rockaway-Beach-Naval-Station_Transatlantic-expedition_John-Towers

At 1:28 you can see the fans on NC-1....also two bladed. That leaves NC-4!
 
Any info would help. On the film from left to right the 4 bladed prop would be the third in line. There was another video that showed only one 4 blader and the other three were singles. It also was kinda blurry and was showed it on NC3.
 
I found a photo album online that has a bunch of good detail shots of NC-4 as it is in restored state. Check out photo #7 specifically. It shows the locations of the three fan driven fuel pumps and the generator too. As NC-4 sits now, all of them are two blade fans. I'll keep looking though!

http://rides.webshots.com/album/556397585VeFJuo
 
Yeah, I had a friend take some close ups at the museum and it only showed the single bladed ones. He must of had one heck of a telephoto lens. At this point I can't even say that NC4 had a 4 blade windmill but I thinks it's pretty solid to say that NC3 did (according to the logs). I guess one of the big questions is, was this a change made at one of the stops and was it only on 3. I was told that NC3 and NC4 was put back into service shortly after they were returned to the U.S. NC1 was damaged and sank at sea. It wasn't until around 1950 when it was decided to restore NC4 and I understand at that point several of the original parts were missing. I'm not sure what happened to NC3.

The video of where they left Rockaway clearly shows NC4 with all single bladed props. I do think on NC3 the second one does look like a 4 blader. If only it was more clear.
 
Found a couple more very interesting pieces of reference material. There's some pretty good photos too. They're period books, one being first hand accounts from NC-4 and NC-3 crew, the other is from Curtiss. They're books that were scanned and are readable online. I read most of "The triumph of the N.C.'s". Very good read! Here's the links:

Triumph of the N.C.'s

http://www.archive.org/stream/triumphofncs00westrich#page/n0/mode/2up

The flight across the Atlantic

http://www.archive.org/stream/flightacrossatla00curtrich#page/n5/mode/2up

Randy (Midlife), may chime in with some useful knowledge of tips on where to check. You could also try contacting the Smithsonian (maybe someone at Silver Hills). I know I can say I'm curious and interested to find out what you discover!
 
Thanks for the info.Looks like the 4 blade was not on NC4 while at Lisborn but the photo of it at Plymouth looks to have a somewhat smaller one on it, and as usual the photo is blurry. I wish there would be one of plane in Plymouth that would be clear enough to see the props.
 
I've been assisting in the background, providing POC's of various museums and archives.
 
Beware, the curse can attach itself while even in the background! You're playing with FIRE.
 
Both Wattles beer and Yukon Jack put out the fire/curse on this end...just saying if anyone wants to avoid the Curse.
 
I know this thread is a little old now, but I came across something today I thought may be applicable to it. I went to the Titanic exhibit at our state museum today (posted on another thread). In the exhibit was a four bladed fan head from an electric fan. It was just the blade assembly and was recovered from the Titanic wreck site. What I though was interesting (and reminded me of this thread), was the center hub was machined aluminum, NOT stamped! I looked for any markings and could see three small numbers stamped into the inside face of the hub. No other markings were visible. Just thought I'd share since it seemed you had somewhat ruled out the possibility earlier due to all stamped hubs on the blade assemblies you'd seen.
 
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