NASCAR Kobalt 400, Las Vegas

[GrabberOrange69]

Went to the NASCAR race today - while I'd agree with Hot Rod magazine this month that NASCAR has ceased to be relevant to most Hot Rodders, I still had a great time watching the jelly-bean cars run the track. :thu

Strangely, during the post race tear down/inspection of the top 5 cars, NASCAR officials had the ENTIRE 3rd member apart. What on earth would be hiding in there? I mean every single bolt/gear was apart.

 

[KBMWRS]

They really do need to change the acronym of their series.....there ain't nothin' Stock about those things.

National We Race What They Tell Us To Race series would be better.

 

[tarafied1]

I was reading that Dodge unveiled the new Charger for 2013 at that race. Found a picture. Too bad Dodge didn't make a car like the NASCAR version in the picture and too bad the real NASCAR version won't really look anything like this one (except for maybe the headlight stickers).
NASCAR says it doesn't want any manufacturer to have an advantage and that they want it to be a "drivers" race. So why even have teams or manufacturers? Just do like the old IROC series were the cars were supposed to be all the same???

Personally I think if the manufacturers designed cars like in the "old' days we (the customers) would see some benefit and maybe what body styles and engines win races would help fuel economy too!!!

 

[KBMWRS]

Yeah sometimes I wonder what a REAL stock car race car would be like now....but it just couldn't be.

There would have to be too many concessions to safety that you would end up with today's type car anyway. Today's engines are powerful enough to easily make 200mph (ala the new Mustang) but is the car really safe at that speed for a race? (if a race a 200 could be safe relatively speaking). You would end up with all the changes to the car that make up todays NASCAR car, so.....

How about that they 'have' to use the full outer shell of a stock car? Then the manufacturers would design street cars so they could use in races.

 

[tarafied1]

How about that they 'have' to use the full outer shell of a stock car? Then the manufacturers would design street cars so they could use in races.

YES, that's kinda where I was going too. If the manufactures built cars like they used too (to win on Sunday) it would include the safety (which they didn't worry about back in the day). We would see some designs to be fuel efficient, because some races have been won on fuel mileage, and the cars would have to be safe, (can't sell cars that race drivers are dying in every week) and the body shapes (like the Telladega Torino and Dodge Daytona) would evolve from what wins on Sunday. Instead of NASCAR mandating the car of tomorrow or generic shape, the manufacturers would build what works. Who cares about the drivers! They all can drive. We want the stock racing of the old days. Why do they think attendance to races and TV viewers have gone down? Nobody cares to watch Jimmy Johnson or Hendrick's Teams win every race. I'm sure people got tired of watching Richard Petty win all the time too but he did it in the old days so if they want the pretty boys to win they still can.

 

[monkeystash]

I guess I just don't see why everyone gets so wrapped around the axle about them not being "stock cars". The racing is exciting, the cars make 800+ HP and go over 200 mph. They are also now über safe. It's a different time, just like a 2011 Mustang differs from a 1965. I'd rather see Superbirds and Torinos making laps too, but those days are long gone. Personally, I've been able to look past that, and enjoy today's racing, stock or not. YMMV.

 

[RyanG85]

:stu

 

[tarafied1]

I'm not worked up by it but I liked what racing did for the cars back in the day. Now it just seems like F1 or Indy cars. They are cool too and safe and fast but there is just something about seeing "real" cars going fast. That's why I go to the local drag strip and watch the little guys (and hope to be one soon). I don't get into Top Fuel or Funny cars for the same reason. Even the local roundy round tracks don't race "hobby" stock here anymore unless you like watching the front wheel drive things (which i don't). I used to race a hobby stock dirt track car and the rule didn't allow for any mods unless for safety. They were for all intents and purpose, a street car. I don't know if cars exist today where you could do that anymore except for maybe the current crop of pony cars. That would be cool.

 

[Horseplay]

There were two big aspects of Nascar in the old days that have since gone away that really hurt the sport. The move away from the stock manufacturer cars and the control/limiting of the technology. The later is what really kills it for me. When you prevent a team from being innovative you water it down to nothing. Why not set limits not decree absolutes?

I'm fine with displacement being defined but let the team decide how they get there. Maybe on a short track I want to decrease my bore and run more stroke. Let 'em play around with intake design. Exhaust, etc. but mandate things like carb size (i guess now it would be injector set-up).

You could still have the same bodies and safety features but at least the "team" would contribute more than changing tires fast and calculating fuel mileage.

 

[tarafied1]

I think NASCAR has done a lot for safety, so don't get me wrong. The racing is interesting on short tracks. The "team" plate races or not fun to watch unless you like the big crashes. 200 mph isn't exciting when they are all in a pack and only the two drivers working together can win. That's sorta like watching chess in the park or golf. I get the strategy but it's boring to watch unless your the one doing it.
Maybe it's just me but I enjoy more the cars than the drivers too. All the really Big levels of racing in Drag racing, Mud Bogs, Dirt, whatever, tend to be the same. NASCAR is not alone. The top tier is pretty much figured out and so every body is pretty much doing the same thing. I personally like the diversity of the Friday Night Drags or test and tune nights at the strip. It's more interesting to me. I won't complain about NASCAR, because NHRA is the same, just missing the old days I guess. I hate driving down the interstate and all the cars no matter what make, look the same. Boring. I guess that's why I love the Hot Rod Power Tour so much. You see all kinds of creativity and cool rides. Car manufacturers and NASCAR used to have some creativity.

 

[KBMWRS]

The safety I was referring to was that 'stock' cars would not be safe at the speeds that they can do. This would mean full race chassis custom built. Thus the 'stock' would not be there ...and so it goes. That's why I suggested a 'stock' body at least. No more template matching cars. Maybe also have to run 'stock' engines. Now that would be fun.

Heck its 2012 and NASCAR just discovered fuel injection. :hs

I have a video tape (yeah that old stuff) of a Daytona 500 back in the late 70s. Cale Yarborough was accused of cheating when he had a Olds (or was it Buick?) that had a sloped back glass instead of the cam/square style that everyone else had. Nope, no cheating. He said he was driving past a dealer and spotted the different style in the showroom window. Stopped and bought it...showed the receipt on TV too. Those were the days of 'Stock' car.

 

[tarafied1]

even as recently as the 80"s the cars had full race chassis but a "stock" body. You might recall the Aero Monte Carlos and Gran Prix's of the day...

I know they were getting away from "stock" even then but the the racing still influenced the cars.

Not anymore, when was the last time you saw a really cool Fusion, Camery or whatever Chevy is running these days?

 

[Midlife]

There were two big aspects of Nascar in the old days that have since gone away that really hurt the sport. The move away from the stock manufacturer cars and the control/limiting of the technology. The later is what really kills it for me.

Unfortunately, by 1969 with the introduction of the Superbird, speeds on the big tracks reached 220 mph, and the track and cars simply weren't safe. With more power and sleeker stock bodies, speeds would increase even more, and safety would take a big hit. NASCAR rightly said these speeds are unsafe, and began various restrictions to keep the speed down (restrictor plates, etc.), but once again the gains made with aerodynamics pushed speeds up again and drafting big-time on the superspeedways took over. Without the restrictions, I'm willing to bet speeds would be pushing 260 mph with the current bodies.

The same thing happens with Indy cars: lots of restrictions on engine size, boost, etc., to keep speeds at or near 225 mph tops. Can you imagine the speeds of Indy cars at Daytona?

With the higher speeds, there's really nothing that can be done to keep the drivers safe other than to restrict speeds on the ovals. One could do away with oval racing to reduce speeds, but that's where the majority of the money is...

 

[KBMWRS]

Make them all drive FIAT 500s! :thu :thu :thu :thu :yah :yah :yah

 

[RyanG85]

There were two big aspects of Nascar in the old days that have since gone away that really hurt the sport. The move away from the stock manufacturer cars and the control/limiting of the technology. The later is what really kills it for me. When you prevent a team from being innovative you water it down to nothing. Why not set limits not decree absolutes?

Only problem with that is that you would only see one or two teams winning over and over again. Sport has gotten too rich

 

[Horseplay]

Only problem with that is that you would only see one or two teams winning over and over again. Sport has gotten too rich

Maybe. With each manufacturer providing their own base engine design there will be plenty of variety in final engine configurations once all 43 cars hit the track. If you allow the teams to make their own choices of things like gear ratios on top of engine tweaks and chassis set-ups even the little guys have a shot of picking the right combo on any given day to hit it right for that particular days weather and track conditions.

Back in the day, you had dominant cars/drivers and it was still fun. Someone would come up with a new trick (cheat!) and the tables would be turned until the next innovation came along.

If all you are worried about is top speed that can easily be electronically limited without affecting how the engine combo makes it's power so as not to affect what teams are doing.