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Need opinions on a 418w build
- Thread starter wayjon0
- Start date
I don't see those kinds of HP numbers coming out of that engine. The early heads are not going to let it breathe well enough to get there. What kind of compression ratio did he tell you was the target? Running stock heads you don't want to get over 10:1 or you'll be facing detonation issues. Small heads and average compression are not the combination you want if your goal is big power. Go to an aluminum head (I do not recommend the Pro Comps) and you will solve this limitation. Do not go with the Performer intake as it will limit you as well. The Air Gap is a good choice but in a 65/66 you will have hood clearance issues as I understand it.
Has he asked about the rest of your drive train? Transmission, rear gear, etc? Vehicle weight, honest driving habits and expectations. You can't be making a good cam selection without knowing all this stuff.
A "pro" built 550 H.P fully dressed engine for $3,750 is one of those too good to be true deals in my book.
Has he asked about the rest of your drive train? Transmission, rear gear, etc? Vehicle weight, honest driving habits and expectations. You can't be making a good cam selection without knowing all this stuff.
A "pro" built 550 H.P fully dressed engine for $3,750 is one of those too good to be true deals in my book.
Thank you for the info.
We did discuss drive train.....Tranmission is Modern Drivelines TKO 600 conversion kit and I'm looking for a 9" 3.50ish geared trac-loc 3rd member for the rear end. As far as Driving habits it will be the fun car in the garage, to and from work on occasion and weekend stuff. That being said I do try to burn the tires off my brothers 04 SVT Everytime he needs to barrow my truck.
The price is the biggest reason I wanted to have you guys look at this. He came in $1500 under the next closest quote and while that sounds great, it scared me a little too.
Are there less expensive ways to get to those HP #'s without going the scat stroker kit/AFR head route?
We did discuss drive train.....Tranmission is Modern Drivelines TKO 600 conversion kit and I'm looking for a 9" 3.50ish geared trac-loc 3rd member for the rear end. As far as Driving habits it will be the fun car in the garage, to and from work on occasion and weekend stuff. That being said I do try to burn the tires off my brothers 04 SVT Everytime he needs to barrow my truck.
The price is the biggest reason I wanted to have you guys look at this. He came in $1500 under the next closest quote and while that sounds great, it scared me a little too.
Are there less expensive ways to get to those HP #'s without going the scat stroker kit/AFR head route?
Simple answer is HP doesn't come cheap. The main thing to focus on is letting it breathe. Big cubes need big air. A stock 351w block, properly machined, can handle the power you are after. If you don't wind it up too high you can live with a stock crank. By going aluminum head you can run a higher compression ratio which is what it will take to go normally aspirated and reach your goal. You must spend some cash on the heads. AFRs, Canfields, Trick Flows can all deliver the necessary air if sized right and properly set-up. Some will say the Pro Comps can be massaged to work but I don't know anyone who has gone that way. Doesn't mean they can't just that I can't say so.
I assume you are staying with a carburetor?
Save some money by shopping for and installing the bolts-ons yourself. Why pay a shop to install valve covers, oil pan etc. Many times they may make it appealing to have them do so for a reason. Me, I'd rather be able to see what is under them before I pay. You can shop around and hit deals and save hundreds doing it this way.
I assume you are staying with a carburetor?
Save some money by shopping for and installing the bolts-ons yourself. Why pay a shop to install valve covers, oil pan etc. Many times they may make it appealing to have them do so for a reason. Me, I'd rather be able to see what is under them before I pay. You can shop around and hit deals and save hundreds doing it this way.
68EFIvert
Well-Known Member
The $1500 price difference is the price of some good heads. Throw some Twisted Wedge FAC heads on there and maybe you will reach the HP numbers you are looking for.
daveSanborn
Active Member
Me neither. 375HP is more likely. 500-600 reliable HP is going to cost you a LOT more than what's been quoted.
Without knowing anything else about this builder I'd continue to shop around. There's probably a real good reason why he's coming in cheaper than everyone else.
66gt350
Active Member
Hivewax -- Are you sure it was the compression that cracked your crank? 10.6:1 isn't too high. Didn't they come from the factory with 10:1 to 10.5:1? If my math was correct, I was running over 11:1 with a stock cast crank in my 351W and had no problems with the crank. And I was spinning that motor pretty high.
monkeystash
Active Member
I would avoid this guy, he is giving you bad info. Flat top pistons and 289 heads=crazy high compression ratio, as in not pump gas. Both heads mentioned are not anywhere near ideal, and would never make 500 HP. FYI, Pro Comps are Chinese. I am building a similar 408W, and bought TFS Twisted Wedge CNC 205 heads. I'll be using a 20+cc dish piston with a 65cc combustion chamber, and still be around 10:1 compression. Just image a 54cc head, flat tops, and 418 cubes, yikes! You have a $2000 transmission, don't skimp on the heads. I suggest you take your business elsewhere, good luck.
"66gt350" said:
The cast crank could of been a defect, balanced/shaved wrong, or who knows, someone could of dropped it. I might of not let it break-in correctly... burn-outs.
EDIT: stock compression is much lower... I can only use 93 octane or else pinging will occur from what I was told.
500 HP from that engine? NO WAY. I'd say it will run like crap and you will be lucky to have 300 at the crank. That is one UGLY combination, including that Teeny, Tiny cam.
I have a 408w that dynoed with 354hp at the wheels, so I figure it has around 420hp at the crank. The block is a '93 roller ready 351w block, bored .030 over, and has the Probe crank, rods, and pistons. The short block cost me around $4k from a local engine builder that I have known and trusted for 20+ years and 7+ engines. Then I added some AFR 185 heads and ARP studs, windage tray, Crane Gold 1.7 ratio rockers (with the Ford Racing F-303 cam, gives me .054 of lift, which is still on the small side for a 408), Wieand Stealth intake (the Performer intake he recommends is barely better than stock, and mostly from the weight savings), a 750cfm Holley Double Pumper, a full blown MSD ignition system, and I'm just north of 400 HP at the crank and closing in quickly on $8,000.
Speed costs money. Power costs money. There's no short cut unless you you own Summit or Jeg's.
Please choose a different builder. This guy just quoted you a junker of an engine. It would fall flat on it's face and you, seriously, would be lucky to get north of 300 hp on it, and I don't see 300, really.
I have a 408w that dynoed with 354hp at the wheels, so I figure it has around 420hp at the crank. The block is a '93 roller ready 351w block, bored .030 over, and has the Probe crank, rods, and pistons. The short block cost me around $4k from a local engine builder that I have known and trusted for 20+ years and 7+ engines. Then I added some AFR 185 heads and ARP studs, windage tray, Crane Gold 1.7 ratio rockers (with the Ford Racing F-303 cam, gives me .054 of lift, which is still on the small side for a 408), Wieand Stealth intake (the Performer intake he recommends is barely better than stock, and mostly from the weight savings), a 750cfm Holley Double Pumper, a full blown MSD ignition system, and I'm just north of 400 HP at the crank and closing in quickly on $8,000.
Speed costs money. Power costs money. There's no short cut unless you you own Summit or Jeg's.
Please choose a different builder. This guy just quoted you a junker of an engine. It would fall flat on it's face and you, seriously, would be lucky to get north of 300 hp on it, and I don't see 300, really.
AzPete
Well-Known Member
Sounds about right"wayjon0" said:
I've suggested him before and will to you as well. Give Woody a call over at Ford Strokers. All he does is build stroked small block Fords. He kinda knows what he is doing.
http://www.fordstrokers.com/index.php
http://www.fordstrokers.com/index.php
Just a follow up to let everyone know your information was dead on. I asked the builder a few more questions about why he chose the 289 head instead of something like a afr 205. He stated that the heads he quoted had a 74cc chamber and that by moving to the afr the chamber would be smaller. That contradicted what little I knew about 289 heads (54cc). So I dug out a SBF book and looked up all casting number for all years of the 289, hipo included. The book indicates the largest chamber ever produced on a 289 was the C6OE cast at 63cc. The only head I could find that was close to 74 was the later model 351C.
I have purchased a C9 block and will be taking it to one of the more reputable SBF builders here in DFW.
Thanks again everyone for your help.
I have purchased a C9 block and will be taking it to one of the more reputable SBF builders here in DFW.
Thanks again everyone for your help.