No spark problem.... solved.

[daveSanborn]

My son's car isn't getting spark from the coil. I removed the coil wire from the distributor cap, stuck a screwdriver into the end of the coil wire, held the shaft of the screwdriver close to a ground source while cranking and got no spark/arc between the ground and screwdriver.

Here's my question(s).....

Will this "old school" test work when using a MSD-6AL ignition box? I understand that the box is a capacitive discharge design, but spark from the coil wire to the distributor cap should be un-effected by this... correct?

I've got some more T/S to do still, but it's looking as if the MSD box took a crap. I've got good 12V constant and 12V switched going into the box and no spark from the removed coil wire. I patched in a Jacobs Energy coil I had laying around and got the same results, no spark. There's a test to isolate the MSD box from the coil that I haven't tried yet, but will try it this evening.

Has anyone dealt with MSD on repairing a box outside of the warranty period? Cost to bench check, etc.?

 

[apollard]

Re: No spark problem

Will this "old school" test work when using a MSD-6AL ignition box? I understand that the box is a capacitive discharge design, but spark from the coil wire to the distributor cap should be un-effected by this... correct?

Worked for a guy I 'know' - he kept the screwdriver too far away from the metal :scar

 

[daveSanborn]

Re: No spark problem

he kept the screwdriver too far away from the metal

I went from holding it an inch away.... all of the way down to contact with the grounded surface. I even double checked by using a different ground and still "no spark".

 

[apollard]

Re: No spark problem

I'd avoid the 1 inch away part - thats what lit me that guy up.

Sounds to me like you have a bad box.

 

[daveSanborn]

After 2-3 hours of troubleshooting with four different MSD techs..... each of whom seemed to have a different prognosis.... I am now confident that I can troubleshoot ANY MSD related problem.

An hour after MSD's tech line closed for the day I figured I'd start back at square one armed with all of the knowledge I'd gained and found the problem to be an intermittent connection between the 6AL and the MSD distributor at the Green/Purple wire's 2 pin connector.

What frustrated me almost as much as the no-spark problem were the MSD techs that seemed more interested in "clearing the lines" than actually troubleshooting the problem. After describing the problem, one tech was convinced that it had to be a bad ground off the MSD box and wouldn't T/S further until the 6AL was grounded to the NEG post on the battery. Mostly just to prove him wrong I ran an 8 gauge wire from the MSD ground 14 feet rearward to the trunk mounted battery.

Here's about how that conversation went:

tech: have you checked your ground?

me: the ground is fine, it's grounded to the radiator support with the headlight relays.

tech: it HAS to be grounded to the battery.

me: buddy, the car's been running fine for almost 3 years off of this ground, the ground is not the problem.

tech: I'll bet money that it's your chassis ground.

me: It's not the ground.

tech: where's the battery grounded to?

me: the trunk floor panel.

tech: that's not going to work. You HAVE TO ground the MSD box to the NEG post on the BAT.

me: let's just pretend that the box is grounded to BAT and move on.

tech: there's nothing left to move on to.... the GRD is your problem.

me: Jesus H. Christ.... okay, you're going on speaker phone.

tech: Sir, just call back after you've properly grounded the box.

me: fine, what's your extension?

tech: 2266

me: I'll call you back in 5 minutes.

I rounded up a brand new roll of heavy 8 ga. wire and draped it across the roofline of the car.... grounding the MSD box directly to NEG term on the BAT and called the tech line again.

tech: MSD tech line, how can I help you?

me: yeah, when I dialed ext. 2266 for your associate Joe it went to his voicemail. I need to talk to him.

tech: Which Joe? Joe Dijardo or Joe Peppers?

me: Um, the Joe at ext. 2266. He didn't give me his last name.

tech: Oh, okay, hold on a second.

me: sure.

"you've reached the voicemail of Joe Dijardo, please leave a message"

me: mutherf-----er!

Redial MSD

tech: MSD tech line, how can I help you?

me: DO NOT transfer me. Do you know Joe at ext. 2266?

tech: yeah, he's sitting right here.

me: can you transfer this call to him so that I can speak to him and NOT have my call go to his voicemail?

tech: he has to be off of the phone to do that.

me: is he off the phone now?

tech: he just hung up, hold on a second....

tech: MSD tech line, how can I help you?

me: is this Joe?

tech: yeah, did you get your box grounded?

me: yes Joe and guess what... there's still no output from the box.

tech: where is the MSD box grounded?

me: to the BAT

tech: what gauge wire did you use? It HAS to be at least 10ga.

me: I didn't have a long enough piece of 10ga so I used....

tech: you HAVE TO use AT LEAST 10ga wire to ground the MSD box.

me: Um, I used 8ga.

tech: oh, okay..... so now that it's properly grounded, let's check....

me: wait a second, I thought you said it HAD to be the GRD?

tech: I said it had to be grounded to the BAT.

me: yeah, I exactly know what you said..... hey remember an hour ago when you were telling me that your associate Edgar was "new" and that I shouldn't have listened to him when he told me that the distributors magnetic pickup was bad and I DISASSEMBLED the ENTIRE DISTRIBUTOR AND REMOVED it only to eventually speak to you and find out that there was a test to determine mag pickup function that we didn't perform so I re-assembled the distributor and found out the mag pickup was fine?

tech: yeah, your mag pickup is fine.

me: yes, but after I learned that I'd removed the distributor and disassembled it for nothing I told you to go slap Edgar on the back of the head for wasting my time... and you laughed.

tech: I'm not sure where you're going sir.

me: Can you transfer me over to Edgar? I need him to do something for me.....

 

[blue65coupe]

lmao, I'm sure Edgar appreciated that.

 

[Fast68back]

I bet you made their day Dave.

 

[tarafied1]

your the man! I love that you take the time to type your conversations, That is priceless!

 

[garner67]

tech: I said it had to be grounded to the BAT.

me: yeah, I exactly know what you said..... hey remember an hour ago when you were telling me that your associate Edgar was "new" and that I shouldn't have listened to him when he told me that the distributors magnetic pickup was bad and I DISASSEMBLED the ENTIRE DISTRIBUTOR AND REMOVED it only to eventually speak to you and find out that there was a test to determine mag pickup function that we didn't perform so I re-assembled the distributor and found out the mag pickup was fine?

tech: yeah, your mag pickup is fine.

me: yes, but after I learned that I'd removed the distributor and disassembled it for nothing I told you to go slap Edgar on the back of the head for wasting my time... and you laughed.

tech: I'm not sure where you're going sir.

me: Can you transfer me over to Edgar? I need him to do something for me.....

Now that there is some funny chit!!! Definitely a story I'll tell some friends. Thanks for the laugh!

 

[crustycurmudgeon]

tech: I'll bet money that it's your chassis ground

So how much $ did you win? :$$$

Frank

 

[daveSanborn]

So how much $ did you win? :$$$

Frank

Yeah, wouldn't that have been nice! Those darn tech's had me running in circles chasing ghosts. The good thing is that I learned a lot about how to troubleshoot MSD systems.... and how not to.

If anyone has a MSD related problem, do yourself a favor and call me before you call MSD.

 

[Grabber70Mach]

Thanks for the laugh Dave. But unless I missed it somewhere what ended up being the problem?

 

[Jonk67]

Thanks for the laugh Dave. But unless I missed it somewhere what ended up being the problem?

He didn't have it grounded to the battery, obviously :dh

Jon



Okay, Sorry Dave, wanted to see if your head would explode...."found the problem to be an intermittent connection between the 6AL and the MSD distributor at the Green/Purple wire's 2 pin connector."

 

[Grabber70Mach]

He didn't have it grounded to the battery, obviously :dh

Jon



Okay, Sorry Dave, wanted to see if your head would explode...."found the problem to be an intermittent connection between the 6AL and the MSD distributor at the Green/Purple wire's 2 pin connector."

:doh :headac Read it but just didn't process it.

 

[Jonk67]

:doh :headac Read it but just didn't process it.

Do you work for MSD by any chance? :lol

Jon

 

[Grabber70Mach]

Do you work for MSD by any chance? :lol

Jon

Nope USPS......... :sur :vic :lol

 

[southern_boy]

If you know how to diagnose MSD, could you possibly know how to troubleshoot Mallory as well??

 

[DougG69]

I rate this thread a :10