Removed drop blocks and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch :)

[Sluggo]

Ok.

I decided to remove the drop blocks in the rear today because the car apparently settled a bit and was i little too low in the back compared to the front.
So I decided to realign it after getting it back together.

First thing I did was got it all mounted and measured.

Here are the initial measurements. Obviously things have moved around since the last alignment. :conf

Next was to address the rear using the satellite readout and get it as close to "straight" as possible.
You can see looking at the picture that the rear is cocked to the right a bit. Both wheels toed out, the right more than the left.

Even using a friction jack I was unable to get the rear any straighter than it was, so I went to the front and adjusted the camber first.

Caster is not a live reading and must be re-measured after each adjustment. Adjusting the camber sent the right caster way out. :yikes

After remeasuring the caster, I took it about 4 wrench turns too far.

I gave it 4 wrench turns the opposite direction. Looking better now. :nice

Just need to set the toe now.

Setting up for bumpsteer measurment.

The car has the UCAs dropped with no corrective action taken to the tie rods.
Even though I've done alignments for years, I would never have guessed I'd see these
kind of numbers for bumpsteer. I quit raising the car at 1.5 inches above stock height.

Alignment printout.

Bumpsteer printout.

Adjustment printout.

Done ep Just a tad higher in the back than I wanted it but it'll be ok :nice

 

[Starfury]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

Nice. Next time adjust the caster first, then the camber Caster usually has a large affect on camber, but camber only has a small affect on caster.

 

[Sluggo]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

Nice. Next time adjust the caster first, then the camber Caster usually has a large affect on camber, but camber only has a small affect on caster.

Really? How come when I changed the right camber from .2+ to .6- the caster changed 1 degree more positive, but when I backed off the caster 1.4 degrees it affected the camber 1 tenth of a degree?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

Just goes to show, with the right equipment even idiots can align a car :nice

Is it the picture or did you repaint already to Yellow???


Those printouts are way cooler than my chicken scratch on paper :yikes

 

[Starfury]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

Really? How come when I changed the right camber from .2+ to .6- the caster changed 1 degree more positive, but when I backed off the caster 1.4 degrees it affected the camber 1 tenth of a degree?

I don't know. How the hell did you get a 1* change in caster by altering camber? That shouldn't happen. You might want to check for any play in your front end and check to make sure the alignment plates aren't loose. Otherwise...I dunno. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Sluggo]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

I don't know. How the hell did you get a 1* change in caster by altering camber? That shouldn't happen. You might want to check for any play in your front end and check to make sure the alignment plates aren't loose. Otherwise...I dunno. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Do you really think I'm one of those tire store twist it til it's green and ship it alignment dudes?

Everything in the front end is new. The machine is less than two years old and has done less than 100 alignments. It's calibrated every 6 months.

There is no need to look for any phantom problem because there are none.

 

[blue65coupe]

Seriously Mark. His car is more yellow than J's. Hell, maybe I ain't the one that's colorblind.

 

[70_Fastback]

Guys, I'm telling ya; the GO is hard to photograph. Every picture I have my car looks different in - ESPECIALLY if I use the cell phone versus a good digi-camera.

Example(s):

Top one is a cell phone pic.

Bottom is a Sony Digital camera pic

 

[Anonymous]

and this is what J's car looks like when taken with a 35mm old school film that hasn't been modified or air brushed!

 

[70_Fastback]

and this is what J's car looks like when taken with a 35mm old school film that hasn't been modified or air brushed!

And Photoshopped!

 

[Starfury]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

Do you really think I'm one of those tire store twist it til it's green and ship it alignment dudes?

Everything in the front end is new. The machine is less than two years old and has done less than 100 alignments. It's calibrated every 6 months.

There is no need to look for any phantom problem because there are none.

I believe you, I just don't get it. Camber shouldn't affect caster hardly any, if at all. Unless you're using shims, which you're not.

 

[Sluggo]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

I believe you, I just don't get it. Camber shouldn't affect caster hardly any, if at all. Unless you're using shims, which you're not.

On these cars you change the caster at the lower control arm mount. Caster is changed by changing the length of the strut rod. The strut rod is connected to the outer portion of the the lower control arm.

When you add negative camber you are in effect lengthening the lower control arm.
In the process you also are moving where the strut rod mounts to the LCA.
The front of the strut rod is fixed (until you adjust it) so when the LCA gets longer, it also moves forward at the outer extreme because the strut rod will not lengthen without you adjusting it.
This increases the positive caster by pulling the lower ball joint farther ahead of center.

I hope that makes sense the way I explained it :crazy

 

[lethal289]

Guys, I'm telling ya; the GO is hard to photograph. Every picture I have my car looks different in - ESPECIALLY if I use the cell phone versus a good digi-camera.

Example(s):

Top one is a cell phone pic.

Bottom is a Sony Digital camera pic

J, what did your car look like when you got it? I mean how far did it come, and how long did it take you?

 

[Starfury]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

On these cars you change the caster at the lower control arm mount. Caster is changed by changing the length of the strut rod. The strut rod is connected to the outer portion of the the lower control arm.

When you add negative camber you are in effect lengthening the lower control arm.
In the process you also are moving where the strut rod mounts to the LCA.
The front of the strut rod is fixed (until you adjust it) so when the LCA gets longer, it also moves forward at the outer extreme because the strut rod will not lengthen without you adjusting it.
This increases the positive caster by pulling the lower ball joint farther ahead of center.

I hope that makes sense the way I explained it :crazy

It does, but I've never seen anywhere near that large of an effect on caster by altering camber on my car. Maybe 0.2*. I use the same Hunter setup at school, btw. I always set caster, then camber, and I don't usually have to go back and adjust caster.

But then, looking at your start specs, your r/f camber adjustment was quite large. *shrug*

 

[Sluggo]

Re: Removed drop block and aligned...Dialup???pack a lunch

It does, but I've never seen anywhere near that large of an effect on caster by altering camber on my car. Maybe 0.2*. I use the same Hunter setup at school, btw. I always set caster, then camber, and I don't usually have to go back and adjust caster.

But then, looking at your start specs, your r/f camber adjustment was quite large. *shrug*

Are they teaching you to ALWAYS re-sweep the caster after adjusting anything but toe? You would want to re-sweep after a large toe adjustment too. If you are not re-sweeping the caster, you're not getting a true reading.

Caster does not update itself like camber and toe do. It will if you jack up the axle but I would not trust it. You are unloading the suspension when you jack up the axle and I don't care how many times you jounce it, it's not loaded like a driven vehicle.

Really in the end I guess it does not matter which you do first, but after a few hundred you kinda get a feel for the quickest way.

What's the hardest car/truck you've aligned so far?

 

[Starfury]

Yeah, I always run a caster sweep after adjustments. The new Hunter software is pretty slick at guessing, but it still changes after a sweep.

I've aligned my '67 and my buddy's '68 several times. My roommate and I aligned his '02 Chevy 1500 a couple times, which is a pain. You basically have to do it with the axle jacked up, and the measurements always change after you drop it back down and run a caster sweep. Irritating, although still not as much of a pain as his (now wrecked) '97 T/A that requires a special tool, or an Altima that I did that makes you guess at caster/camber by rotating the strut mount plate.

I've yet to do a car with UCA sliders or shims, though. *shudder*