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Removing smog equipment

RapidRabbit

RapidRabbit

Well-Known Member
Donator
I am trying to get the last of the parts I need ordered for my EFI swap.
What is the best way to eliminate all the smog equipment.
I was thinking an EGR eliminator and EGR eliminator plate.
remove the smog pump.
Do I need to do anything else? Or should I just leave it all on?

I have been looking at RJM's website.
http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/?p=9
 
FWIW, even though the Golden State no longer requires periodic smog inspections as part of registration transactions on cars as old as ours, state law requires that all original smog equipment remain intact and, if for some reason (such as future road side sniffers) the pollution emitted by our cars exceeds a threshold, the Air Resources people could rerquire us to reinstall all the missing or inoperative equipment without regard to cost. Federal law may be similar. Check with the big cheese Cheese Heads in your state to see what kind of risks you assume when you tamper with the factory equipment.
 
IIRC you may still get computer error codes, but they won't trigger a check engine light. Is the EGR eliminator you mentioned the plugin unit for the harness to help with error codes? I believe that's what you're talking about, but if not, you'll need one of those too or else you will get the light.

With that said, and to expand a little on what Jeff said, while some states don't require smog checks/equipment on cars older than a certain year, how they determine that isn't necessarily on the body itself. Generally some states only honor that when the entire car is original. If a later model motor is installed the smog check/equipment requirement is based on the age of the NEWEST component (engine). In other words, if for example you have a '66 coupe and the state doesn't require anything prior to 1975, you're safe with an all original car. If you drop in a '92 5.0, then you'd have to comply with all smog requirements because the applicable date would be looked at as '92, the age of the engine (e.g. the newest part). Always best to check first (and hold onto those old parts!).

I find the silliest and most ironic thing is that, generally speaking, compared with a perfectly tuned all original classic, by dropping in a stock EFI motor with NO smog equipment it would normally STILL burn cleaner than the all original!
 
Actually, federal law prohibits any modifications to smog-related equipment, not state law. CA is simply one of the few states that checks to make sure you don't mess with anything.

That said, I'd eliminate the EGR if it was my car:)

And as far as burning clean, a well tuned carbureted engine can and will run very clean. I've put my car on a sniffer at school before and come up with less than 300ppm hydrocarbons and very low CO % at test rpms. Much less than CA's original requirements for a '67 car. NOx might not be quite as clean as a car with EGR, but the test specs were lower than some more modern cars that pass smog here. It's all in how well you tune it.
 
In addition to what you've listed, I also installed the SS Thermactor Smog Plugs shown at the bottom of your linked page.
 
Thanks guys.

I am still on the fence as to whether there is any advantages to removing the smog stuff or if I should just leave it on. :confu
Not to worried about smog checks here in WI, but we will most likely be moving out west somewhere within the next 5 years so maybe that will be a determining factor. Either way I will keep the parts if I need to put them back on.

Dave, Do you have any problems without the smog stuff on? I have heard it can cause the engine to run lean.
And I was going to get the plugs for the back of the engine too.
 
Tad, never said you couldn't tune a carb'd motor to run clean. There's no human way possible with the equipment you'd be working with though (e.g. carb versus a computer controlled EFI system that also atomizes fuel finer than any carb could),, in which you'd run (again.....generally), cleaner AND do so consistently. What do you do for a general engine tune up (given the constant that it's got electronic ignition)? For the most part, you change the plugs (and possibly check/adjust the timing). What else do you do with with an EFI motor? Nothing! What do you do with a carb'd motor check /adjust you idle mixture and speed. They commonly do not remain at a constant peak efficiency setting. Car makers don't invest billions into developing, testing and implementing an EFI system just for bragging rights. The systems cost them more, which in turn raises the price of the car. They HAD to develop a cleaner, more efficient fuel delivery system in order to meet EPA fuel economy and emissions standards. If they had been able to do it with a carb (which is a HECK of a lot cheaper fuel delivery system!), they would have stuck with them. When they can save a penny, they do. When they have to spend them (or in the case of an EFI system, a LOT of them), there's good reason!

BTW, dunno where you heard that YOU (as the vehicle owner), modifying your emissions system was against Federal law, but if it was a lawyer...find a new one! The Federal laws and regulations (covered under the United States Code and the Code of Federal Regulations), set pollution limits and testing standards for manufacturers...NOT the individual citizen. They also establish pollution standards and to be met and the prescribed testing methods to determine those levels. The states set the laws concerning vehicle modifications (of ANY kind if they wish), for the individual. You may be confusing this with the term Federal Emissions Regulations and CARB Regulations. Again, it's for a standard that must be met. If you feel you could meet the Federal standard by ripping off your cats', so be it......no violation of the Federal standard. However the state can say that ALL equipment must be in place and if it's not, they can deny your vehicle from being used on the highway, whether it would pass emission output standards or not.

With that said, if you're familiar with a USC or CFR that specifically states it's illegal for ME to alter emissions equipment on MY car, I'd be grateful if you'd share the title, chapter and section. Honestly and no sarcasm intended, I'd love to read it. Just as a little background on me (so you (hopefully) know I'm not talking out of my rear), I'm not only pretty familiar with the USC and CFR's, I also know how to read them (it's not as easy and clear cut as most people would think). I gained that knowledge through currently being a law enforcement officer, having previously been a Federal Agent, was the base environment and hazmat officer (where I was tasked with overseeing compliance with not only OSHA requirements, but state and Federal environmental laws (and was on the road almost constantly for the first year going to environmental law classes and training around the country) during my last 4 years in the military, and spent several years prior to being in the military as a professional mechanic at local dealerships. I certainly don't know everything about the laws, and they change on an almost daily basis. I do like to keep up with them though, especially as they affect me, the individual.

p.s. If you REALLY want to know how truly screwed up things are in the Federal system regarding the laws and regulations, start learning EPA and OSHA laws/regulations. There are some in place in which you can't win (or fully and continuously comply with!). That's because some EPA regulations contradict OSHA regulations, and vice versa! The only way companies can stay ahead of being cited for continuously violating them is to know which agency is sending an inspector. If it's EPA on one day, you do things to their regs. The next day you change back (violating the EPA regs), so you can now comply with OSHA! :wtf :soapboxrant
 
"Ponyman66" said:
BTW, dunno where you heard that YOU (as the vehicle owner), modifying your emissions system was against Federal law, but if it was a lawyer...find a new one! The Federal laws and regulations (covered under the United States Code and the Code of Federal Regulations), set pollution limits and testing standards for manufacturers...NOT the individual citizen.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Clean Air Act prohibits ANYONE from removing or tampering with a pollution control device installed on a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine. This was part of the Clean Air Act amendments of 1990, effective November 15, 1990. EPA does, however, provide penalties only for businesses (dealerships, mechanics, manufacturers), not private owners. So while it is illegal, the Feds are not going to fine you if you own the car. Your state is another matter, though - I know NC will give you 30 days to correct before they cancel your tag and asses you a $200 fee. CA is much stricter, but I don't know the particulars.
 
Exactly, it's part of the Clean Air Act. Most states don't do much to enforce that part of the law, but it's still there. I've been through CA's basic and enhanced area smog classes, so I'm more familiar with automotive smog stuff than anyone who isn't a smog tech needs to be.

There have been instances where vehicles in CA older than '76 (anything pre-'76 is exempt from biannual smog checks here) have been pulled over by CHP for excessive noise, popped their hood, and been sent to a smog ref because of the monster blower sitting under the hood. Smog ref says there is no emissions equipment on the vehicle and the vehicle cannot be registered. DMV (and Clean Air Act) say vehicle must comply with original model year emissions, and the owner has someodd days to rectify the situation before the DMV issues a hefty fine. If you "refuse" (not being able to find the parts doesn't really compute with the DMV), I believe they have the option of impounding and possibly scrapping the vehicle. I've heard of court cases about this, including one for a blown classic Mustang, although I don't know any particulars. It's much more common for newer vehicles with extensive engine mods that stick out like a sore thumb, ie. ricers. The smog ref here (who has his bay set up in the local JC's auto shop) has those come in all the time.

Understand, all of this is very rare for classics. You have to first really piss off a cop, or find one that has a huge chip on his shoulder. Most cops, even CHP, will at least respect a classic car. But if you're driving around a blown Boss9 with open headers, you bet they're going to send you in for a sound check. And guess who does those? The smog ref.
 
Okay guys, I realize this has gotten somewhat O/T (but not totally as it does address the legalities of removing the smog equipment as posted by the OP). I apologize to the OP if we (notably, I), have taken way off track.

As I stated earlier due to past jobs I was very thoroughly trained in the CFR's and USC, specifically in this case as they related to environmentally related laws/regulations. The CCA was one of them. As such I never saw ANYTHING in the CCA which made it illegal for an individual to modify (or remove), smog control equipment from THEIR personally owned vehicle. I also stated that state laws COULD limit that. I also asked for a specific USC or CFR reference so that I could read it (just in case I missed or forgot something). Since the CAA as amended 1990 was the only reference offered I went back through it. I was the environmental and hazmat officer from 1994 to 1998. Since it was amended in 1990, nothing has changed in it from when I was specifically assigned to address and comply with such laws.

Starfury, all the references you mentioned as a follow up appear to be strictly state based (specifically Cali..which, BTW, is exempted by the Federal laws because they are MORE strict than the Fed standards and were actually offered by the Feds to the other 49 states as their compliance standards instead of the Fed standards....and some states actually took them up on it!).

Apollard, you were partially correct in your interpretation of what the CAA says, in that fines and penalties are only for businesses (dealerships, mechanics, manufacturers), not private owners. That's because the CAA applies only to them, NOT to the individual private owner...period! If you prefer to use the EPA term from the CAA for a private owner, they use the phrase "ultimate purchaser". NC can, and obviously DOES, have and apply STATE laws regarding smog equipment. I've never argued or disagreed with that point for any state. As a matter of fact, I've repeatedly stated that state laws could indeed vary and make it illegal but it wasn't against federal law (for the individual)!

If anyone would like to read the exact federal law, here's the reference: USC Title 42, Ch 85, SubCh II, Part A, SubSec 7522, paragraph (a)(3)(A) & (B). (which BTW is the CAA)

The Title makes it illegal:

(3)
(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or

(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use.

Now after reading the above (specifically subparagraph (A), and before you say "ah ha! gotcha", you need to read it again...carefully. You'll note that yes it does indeed say "ANY PERSON", and it does say "remove, render inoperative", however that's BEFORE sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser. That "anyone" means dealerships, mechanics, manufacturers. Now before you get to the end of that paragraph and say again "gotcha", not so fast! The end of the subparagraph does say again, "any person" and AFTER the sale and delivery...but again, to the ultimate purchaser. What that means is not only is it illegal for a business, mechanic, or manufacturer do remove or render inoperative before selling AND delivering your car to you, it is also illegal for you to consumate the purchase fully then RETURN to those same people to have THEM remove or render inoperative! NO WHERE does it make it illegal for YOU, the ultimate purchaser to remove or render inoperative! It's right there in black and white guys.

I also pasted the the (B) subparagraph to present the actual text of the USC regarding the manufacture, distribution and installation of parts intended to byapss, defeat or render inoperative. That would include the EGR Eliminator and EGR Eliminator Plate mentioned by the OP. As far as the installation of it though, the entire subparagraph is only applicable to this subchapter of the Title...which again, applies to dealerships, mechanics, manufacturers. Most businesses attempt to get around this portion by listing their products for test use only.

My whole reason for this long winded legal dissertation is NOT to simply be argumentative or just right. I don't want people freaking out that the EPA is gonna be knocking at their door to take them away to federal prison for taking the smog stuff off their cars. Ya know those mattress labels though....watch out!!!!

Thanks guys for the civil, interesting debate on the laws. It has been very enjoyable for me and forced me to dig deep into my past training that I really need to blow the cobwebs off due to not keeping more in practice and updated to. It is boring to initially learn, can be confusing and a total pain in the butt to sit in a dry a$$ class to learn for weeks at a time. It REALLY sucks when you go through all that and then forget it later on just due to not keeping up and in practice with!

p.s. SF, while I disagree with a LARGE majority of Cali laws, I do LOVE a small number of them and wish we had them here. Notably some of the laws regarding vehicle impoundment and the implied consent (vampire) law. Vampire law = We say you're driving drunk/impaired by drugs now roll up your sleeve voluntarily while we draw blood or we'll strap you down and take it anyway! Here we have to get a court order to draw it involuntarily, or you have to medically incapable of declining (e.g. unconscious or have your jaw ripped off), and it has to be drawn in a medical facility by a nurse, doctor, phlebotomy tech, of which any of them can refuse to do so by state law AND are protected in their declination by the same statute! Which BTW, I had happen to me with a drunk driver who hit and elderly lady head on. The hospital refused to take a blood sample and I was unable to take him to a breathalyzer in the time limits to do so because he was being treated at the hospital for his injuries and wouldn't have been released soon enough. I ended up having to charge him with reckless driving instead (of which, yes, I got a conviction!).
 
The way I read that law (and the way CA interprets it) is that "any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser" does not exclude the purchaser himself. It says "any person," not "any person other than the purchaser."

This law is the basis for a lot of CA's smog requirements. I'm not saying that this is really an issue anywhere but CA, but that the law does still exist if a state decides to interpret it the same way.
 
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