Saluting the flag...

[AzPete]

A lot of retirees do not follow the changes concerning the life they had. Thought I would post this change even though it is a couple years old. I still see guys here not saluting, be it their choice or not.

Law changes --retirees now salute flag

Retired Soldiers are Still Proud! Still Serving! Congress has put Still Saluting into law for Retired Soldiers and other veterans. The 2008 National Defense Authorization Act (Public Law 110-181) changed Sect. 9, Title 4, U.S. Code, which covers “Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag.� Following is that section of the U.S. Code, as reworded by the law change. Please share this information with veterans and other retired military who don’t get Echoes.

"During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.�
Army Echoes, Sep-Dec 2008 http://www.armyg1.army.mil/RSO/docs/echoes/08_Dec.pdf.

 

[sigtauenus]

I did not know that, thanks for posting. It always annoyed the crap out of me when I saw somebody with a hat on, but I never realized it was actually law vice custom.

 

[sigtauenus]

And this is why I never heard of this, because for Marines, nothing changed...

http://www.marines.mil/news/messages/Pages/CUSTOMSANDTRADITIONS.aspx

Text of ALMAR below:

1. THIS ALMAR REINFORCES THE IMPORTANCE OF OUR
CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS AND AMPLIFIES THE PROVISIONS OF THE REFERENCE
FOR RENDERING SALUTES AND HONORS TO THE NATIONAL FLAG; THE PROPER
CONDUCT OF THE MARINE CORPS BIRTHDAY CAKE CUTTING CEREMONY; AND THE
PLAYING OF THE MARINES' HYMN.
2. CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS PROVIDE A LINK TO THE PAST; THEY BOND
MARINES WHO HAVE GONE BEFORE WITH MARINES WHO WILL CARRY THE TORCH
THROUGH THE FUTURE. ANY LOSS OF TRADITION OR IMPROPER OBSERVATION
OF CUSTOM BLURS OUR IDENTITY AND WEAKENS US AS AN INSTITUTION.
THROUGH THE FAITHFUL ADHERENCE BY COMMANDERS AND EACH INDIVIDUAL
MARINE, WE PRESERVE OUR IDENTITY AND REPUTATION AS A UNIQUE AND
ELITE FIGHTING ORGANIZATION.
3. SALUTING. A RECENT CHANGE TO THE LAW HAS AUTHORIZED ACTIVE DUTY
AND RETIRED SERVICEMEMBERS TO SALUTE THE NATIONAL COLORS, WHETHER
COVERED OR UNCOVERED, INDOORS OR OUT. BY CUSTOM AND TRADITION,
MARINES DO NOT RENDER THE HAND SALUTE WHEN OUT OF UNIFORM OR WHEN
UNCOVERED. LET THERE BE NO CONFUSION; THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. DURING
THE PLAYING OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, OR THE RAISING, LOWERING, OR
PASSING OF THE NATIONAL FLAG, MARINES WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW NAVAL
TRADITIONS AND THE POLICY / PROCEDURES CONTAINED IN REFERENCE (A).
SPECIFICALLY, MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL FACE THE FLAG, STAND AT
ATTENTION, AND PLACE THE RIGHT HAND OVER THE HEART. IF COVERED,
MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL REMOVE THEIR HEADGEAR WITH THE RIGHT
HAND AND PLACE THEIR RIGHT HAND OVER THEIR HEART. WHEN THE FLAG IS
NOT PRESENT, MARINES WILL ACT IN THE SAME MANNER WHILE FACING IN THE
DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC. IN CASES SUCH AS INDOOR CEREMONIES, WHEN
MARINES ARE IN UNIFORM AND UNCOVERED, THEY WILL FACE THE FLAG, OR
THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC WHEN THE FLAG IS NOT PRESENT, AND STAND
AT ATTENTION.
4. THE MARINE CORPS BIRTHDAY CAKE CUTTING CEREMONY. THE MARINE
CORPS BIRTHDAY CAKE CUTTING CEREMONY IS ONE OF OUR TIME-HONORED
TRADITIONS IN GARRISON, IN THE FIELD, AND IN COMBAT. ONE OF THE
MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENTS OF THE CEREMONY IS THE TRADITIONAL
RECOGNITION OF THE OLDEST AND YOUNGEST MARINES PRESENT. TO CLARIFY
THE LANGUAGE IN REFERENCE (A), THE COMMANDER CUTS THE CAKE AND HANDS
THE FIRST PIECE TO THE GUEST OF HONOR. THEN THE COMMANDER HANDS THE
SECOND PIECE OF CAKE TO THE OLDEST MARINE PRESENT AS A SIGN OF HONOR
AND RESPECT TO EXPERIENCE AND SENIORITY. AFTER TAKING A BITE, THE
OLDEST MARINE PASSES THE SECOND PIECE OF CAKE, AND A CLEAN FORK,
DIRECTLY TO THE YOUNGEST MARINE PRESENT; THIS ACTION SYMBOLIZES THE
PASSING OF WISDOM, KNOWLEDGE, AND EXPERIENCE, AS WELL AS TRUST AND
CONFIDENCE IN THOSE WHO WILL CONTINUE TO CARRY ON OUR MARINE CORPS
TRADITIONS.
5. PLAYING OF THE MARINES' HYMN. THE MARINES' HYMN IS THE OFFICIAL
HYMN OF THE MARINE CORPS. IT IS THE SONG OF PRAISE TO OUR
INSTITUTION AND THE LYRICS ARE A DIRECT TRIBUTE TO OUR WARFIGHTING
CULTURE. BY CUSTOM AND TRADITION, THE MARINES' HYMN IS THE LAST
SONG PLAYED AT CEREMONIES AND GATHERINGS OF MARINES. ALTHOUGH THE
REFERENCE ALLOWS FOR THE PLAYING OF SPECIAL MUSIC REQUESTS BEFORE
THE MARINES' HYMN, SUCH AS "ANCHOR'S AWEIGH," THIS IS BY EXCEPTION
AND AT THE DISCRETION OF THE LOCAL COMMANDER.
6. ONE OF OUR HALLMARKS AS MARINES IS THAT WE ARE AS GOOD ON PARADE
AS WE ARE IN THE ATTACK. OUR SHARP APPEARANCE - IN AND OUT OF
UNIFORM - AND OUR SUCCESS IN BATTLE ARE TWO IMPORTANT PARTS OF OUR
IDENTITY. WE TAKE PRIDE IN OUR TRADITIONS, AND THEIR UNIFORM
APPLICATION, WHEREVER MARINES ARE ASSIGNED.
7. SEMPER FIDELIS, JAMES T. CONWAY, GENERAL, U.S. MARINE CORPS,
COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS.

 

[daveSanborn]

Thanks Sam.

After reading the initial post I was sitting here scratching my head.... your response cleared it up.

For those unaware, one of the main reasons it's different is Marines do not salute uncovered (no hat). Marines do not wear covers indoors unless posted in a guard/sentry position. Without a cover on, it's impossible to render a proper salute. A proper salute results in the tip of the index finger touching the brim of the cover. This would be very awkward for retired Marines. What if I was at a hockey game and was wearing a winter head warmer? Is this a hat? What if I was wearing a sombrero and happened to be walking by city hall when the flag was being raised? Salute wearing a sombrero? With the large brim of the sombrero your saluting hand would 10" from your face. This would totally screw up the salute.

Without offending other services, the Marine's put a lot more weight into their salute than other services. Boot camp probably could have been shortened by an entire week if it did not include rendering perfecting the salute.

 

[AzPete]

Some of the differences between the forces even under one leader.