Which direction to go?

[abrahamfh]

I have come to a fork in the road where I need to focus my money and efforts on which engine to use for Fred. (Unfortunately my pockets are not deep by any means) I now have my 1969 351w on a floating stand and have been offered a late 1960's J code by a good friend of mine. Neither block has been molested in any way and I'm in need of some outside opinions on which path to take for this specific project. (This is my first project but most definitely wont be my last) My dad and friends have me almost convinced to go the J code route and I am starting to really take it very seriously, am I glorifying the 351w out to be this golden engine that a J code cant match up to?

My goals for the car is to have a streetable ride that I could take to the track once or twice a year and have fun.

Just to clarify, Fred is a 1965 coupe.

Thanks in advance

 

[daveSanborn]

A "J" code motor is nothing special, neither is the 69 351W, but both are good starting points for a nice SBF motor. Of the two engines, I'd go with the 351W.

Side by side it'll cost you roughly the same amount of money to go through either motor. After spending X amount of dollars on either engine, the 351W would most likely come out on top in HP/TQ numbers. Parts are plentiful for either.

 

[Fast68back]

+1 on Dave's comments. Both will build nice motors, the 351 is the better starting point. Find a decent local machine shop, tear that beotch down and take them the block. Find a nice stroker kit, 408 or 427 and have them build it up for you. You dont have to do it all at once. Do it over time.

 

[Sluggo]

I agree with Dave and Rick.

You'll be far happier and not have much more invested in the 351.

 

[Horseplay]

I'd think a bit more about the engine choice if I were in your shoes. You can get your hands on a fairly lively 302/5.0 for a lot less than a 351W. Much less than building a 393-427 stroker. As your first but not last project, I would put more emphasis on a successful and enjoyable build. A healthy little small block is a lot of fun in a 65. What isn't a lot of fun is trying to change plugs in a 351w 65!

Take the money you could save by buying a cheaper 302 (rebuilt stock bottom-end with a good cam, intake and headers) and put it into suspension and brakes that will make driving the car more of a pleasure. A big cube stroker is a torque monster which WILL find and break weak links in the drive train. Not the best situation for a guy on a budget. Your first car should be fun to drive and as reliable as possible. Something you and the family can hop into and take out without concern about breakdowns, etc. You've got more project cars ahead of you.

In all fairness, I should confess my 65 FB will be getting a ridiculously stupid 351w stroker....but...it's certainly not my first project and I've had my share of SB 65's and speak from experience.

 

[tarafied1]

all good advise, for what it's worth I'll throw in my 2 cents. You've already got the 351W. The heads on the 69 351W have bigger valves than a 302 and later 351W's. I'd do a rebuild (rings, bearings, etc.) and a nice mild cam like Comp Cams 268H. Compression ratio (assuming it doesn't need to be bored and new pistons) should be fine on pump gas. A mild 351W would scream in a 65 and be very easy on gas and reliable. If I can change plugs in my 429 you can handle the 351W! Later the 351W could be stroked but I think you'd be happy with it as is.

 

[crustycurmudgeon]

Craig makes a good point. You should evaluate the 351 and see what it needs to get it running. If just a refurb, it wouldn't cost as much as a rebuild.

Frank

 

[Horseplay]

One thing I didn't ask and probably should have...

When you say take it to the track are we talking drag strip or turns? A 351w adds upwards of 15% engine weight compared to a 289/302. That's enough to alter the handling characteristics to the point you need some parts to address the situation. Been there and done that.

Is the 351 complete? Accessory brackets, pulleys, etc.? Lots if not all of this stuff is different than your stock engine and can add to costs if you have to scrounge around for stuff. Remember as well, hood clearance is really tight on a 351 in a 65 which limits your intake choices unless you go with a different hood or a ginormous hood scoop as others have done... :lol

 

[tarafied1]

One thing I didn't ask and probably should have...

When you say take it to the track are we talking drag strip or turns? A 351w adds upwards of 15% engine weight compared to a 289/302. That's enough to alter the handling characteristics to the point you need some parts to address the situation. Been there and done that.

Is the 351 complete? Accessory brackets, pulleys, etc.? Lots if not all of this stuff is different than your stock engine and can add to costs if you have to scrounge around for stuff. Remember as well, hood clearance is really tight on a 351 in a 65 which limits your intake choices unless you go with a different hood or a ginormous hood scoop as others have done... :lol

again good points, You won't want to run a radical intake unless you plan on a scoop. A nice Edelbrock Performer series is usually close to stock height and would go well with a a mild cam. It should fit under the hood without a carb spacer. The extra weight can be offset with a battery relocation to the trunk, headers and aluminum intake. If you do want a scoop, a glass hood will help too. All things you need to consider however as they aren't free.
Accessory brackets, pulleys, etc. shouldn't be too pricey but it does add up if you don't have them.
Good thinking Horseplay.

 

[abrahamfh]

One thing I didn't ask and probably should have...

When you say take it to the track are we talking drag strip or turns? A 351w adds upwards of 15% engine weight compared to a 289/302. That's enough to alter the handling characteristics to the point you need some parts to address the situation. Been there and done that.

Is the 351 complete? Accessory brackets, pulleys, etc.? Lots if not all of this stuff is different than your stock engine and can add to costs if you have to scrounge around for stuff. Remember as well, hood clearance is really tight on a 351 in a 65 which limits your intake choices unless you go with a different hood or a ginormous hood scoop as others have done... :lol

Defenitely would like to see the track with turns, no offense to the drag strip folks. The 351 is complete minus the carb. I definitely would like to maintain a as close to stock appearance when Fred is cruising around.

 

[Sluggo]

Remember as well, hood clearance is really tight on a 351 in a 65 which limits your intake choices unless you go with a different hood or a ginormous hood scoop as others have done... :lol

Very good point. Even with the tiny air cleaner I'm running on mine, with a 3/8 inch gasket under the carb and a performer manifold it sits real close to the hood.

My recent big cube stroker experience can possibly be viewed as some validation to some of you earlier points as well.
I'd be pretty screwed right now if I did not have some of the resources that I do.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll add;

There's nothing like having the car at the track, driving away from very expensive and high tech cars, then having the owners / instructors ask how big is the motor. Their faces, when I say a 289, are priceless.[nb]Except the PT owners, they just laugh[/nb]

 

[PJ Moran]

What isn't a lot of fun is trying to change plugs in a 351w 65!

That says it all for me. The extra cubes aren't worth it if the car is hard to work on (maintain). If the cost of each option is about the same, I'd stick with the 302.

I could have put any engine I wanted in my '68, but knew that anything bigger than a 351 would create maintenance headaches. '67's and '68's have wider engine bays (designed so to accept the "new" big blocks), and can easily accommodate a 351. Even with headers, plug access is not bad at all.

For the same reason, don't get full-length headers. Get good shorties and enjoy the car.

 

[garner67]

That says it all for me. The extra cubes aren't worth it if the car is hard to work on (maintain). If the cost of each option is about the same, I'd stick with the 302.

I could have put any engine I wanted in my '68, but knew that anything bigger than a 351 would create maintenance headaches. '67's and '68's have wider engine bays (designed so to accept the "new" big blocks), and can easily accommodate a 351. Even with headers, plug access is not bad at all.

For the same reason, don't get full-length headers. Get good shorties and enjoy the car.

+1

I agree with PJMoran. There are "hassle" issues with a 351w in a 65/66 that would make me steer away from the taller deck 351w. You could run into hood clearance issues, as well as header fit and spark plug R&R issues.

If your goal is to have a street/track car that fits into a "reasonable" budget, you might as well stay with the 302. Now if you are trying to squeeze as much hp/tq out of your power plant, a stroked 351w would be the way to go. But you know what they say... high power = high dollars.

 

[guruatbol]

That says it all for me. The extra cubes aren't worth it if the car is hard to work on (maintain). If the cost of each option is about the same, I'd stick with the 302.

I could have put any engine I wanted in my '68, but knew that anything bigger than a 351 would create maintenance headaches. '67's and '68's have wider engine bays (designed so to accept the "new" big blocks), and can easily accommodate a 351. Even with headers, plug access is not bad at all.

For the same reason, don't get full-length headers. Get good shorties and enjoy the car.

I agree with everything except the headers. I have full length headers on both cars, I have zero problems with working on either one. The 67 is easier as they both have 289s. The 65 isn't bad with the 289, but I think as long as I stay with a 302, maybe stroked, it will be OK. In the 67, it is plenty for SWMBO with a 289, but if I ever replace it, I will go with a 302.

HTH,

Mel

 

[opentrackerSteve]

[.02]

You've got lots to do on your car - and you're young and have other important things to do with your money. That should weigh heavily with you investing in your car now.

I bet you're going to keep this one for your son or be buried in it like I will with mine. So, you'll have at least one more opportunity to put an engine in your car before that end.

That being said, if you are going to the track, you should be spending several k$ on track parts, tires and wheels to get the car where it will make those expensive guys cry like silverblue mentions (it is true and I've had it happen more than once myself).

So, you might want to make the motor you've got work 'for now' to preserve your greenbacks for other items (lower control arms, shocks, etc). This will also allow you to learn as you go...

You're in this for the long haul, Abe so spread out the funds as you'll have to or the car will be sitting for a long, long time.......

[/.02]

 

[abrahamfh]

Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions and wisdom in helping me decide what to do. After much thought and self doubting, I have decided that Fred will be powered by a 302. I hope that Fred will not be my last classic Mustang restoration and maybe in the future will have another project that could make good use of the 351.

 

[abrahamfh]

[.02]

You've got lots to do on your car - and you're young and have other important things to do with your money. That should weigh heavily with you investing in your car now.

I bet you're going to keep this one for your son or be buried in it like I will with mine. So, you'll have at least one more opportunity to put an engine in your car before that end.

That being said, if you are going to the track, you should be spending several k$ on track parts, tires and wheels to get the car where it will make those expensive guys cry like silverblue mentions (it is true and I've had it happen more than once myself).

So, you might want to make the motor you've got work 'for now' to preserve your greenbacks for other items (lower control arms, shocks, etc). This will also allow you to learn as you go...

You're in this for the long haul, Abe so spread out the funds as you'll have to or the car will be sitting for a long, long time.......

[/.02]

You hit the nail on the head Steve, Fred is being restored for Stefan and I. Once Stefan is of driving legal age(or when he decides to steal it for a joy ride before legal age) it will be his if he wants it. Since the day the pink slip was placed in my hand, Fred became officially part of the family. As it was said in my favorite movie "The Sandlot", he is locked in "fooooreeever".