All - I have just recently found your forum over the past week or so and wanted join-in with a topic related to a current 4R70W swap project that my son and I working on. We have attempted to find as many posts as possible on the various forums related to the 4R70W swap into our early Mustangs. There many great finds out their with great info, but they all tend to drift toward the debate of AOD/AODE/4R70W or the actually building-up of strong 4R70W internals. We are struggling to find that cohesive view and experience analogous to the EFI swap documentation and post out there. Note - I keep running across an old reference to a guy (HoosierBuddy) on VMF who did a write-up, but his info is no longer available and he indicate that he lost that content.
Specifically we are looking for the basics around only 'Fitment' questions (for now). 4R70W fitment can be broken down into the below areas. Each area is listed along with what I think we know and questions for what we are looking to learn (highlighted in red).
Project: Swap from C4 to 4R70W in a 1966 Mustang Coupe
1) Bellhousing - SBF housing can be found on 5.0, 4.2, 3.8 engines (2 bolt starter). 4.6 & 5.4 have the wrong bolt pattern(3 bolt starter). What about the bellhousing separator plate between the engine block and the tranny bellhousing. I assume that the existing one between the 289 and the C4 will not work, but I need one from a 5.0 engine that had a 4R70W, but looking for advise/confirmation.
2) Tunnel - It appears that the tunnel will not require any modification, however there are 4 tabs on the tranny case that should cut-off. Can anyone confirm? I am not certain if the tunnel size on a 65/66 is smaller then 67 and up, but any pictures in a 65/66 would be great. I have included some pics of the tabs I believe need removed from the 4R70W.
3) Exhaust - Long tubes will give you more of an issue, so shorties are a safer bet. I think I am good on the exhaust mods needed.
4) Cross-member - This one is giving me trouble. There are some posts that indicate that the AOD swap cross-members will work, but I have yet to see validation. Compared to the existing C4, the mount holes on cross-member need to be 3 inches further aft. I believe that is approximately 1 inch further back then the AOD. Also, the parking brake equalizer arm pivots off of a bracket welded to the cross-member for 65/66. I might be left with fabricating my own, but has anyone found a crossmember that will fit?
5) Shifter & MLPS(Manual Lever Position Sensor) - I will be using the stock shift and I have seen various solutions, but looking for a specific early mustang example/pics. Most have used a cable but I have heard of one solution that uses a fabricated steel arm (but I have not seen any pics). For those using a cable, what did you fabricate under the floor-shifter to anchor the cable housing?I have also been told that I need to rotate the gear selector shaft 180 degrees so it points down and also reposition the MLPS so they do not interfere with the tunnel. Can anyone confirm this? Rotating it is simple, but want to make sure it is required. If rotated, I need to make sure the floor shifter movements matches up with the gear selector shaft direction for P R N OD 2 L.
6) Drive shaft - These adjustments are pretty simple. You will have to decide on either changing over to the larger OD slip yoke or swaping the tail extension housing on 4R70W with one from an AOD(either 10.5 or 11.5 inch variations), which will allow you to use your existing C4 or T5 slip yoke. AOD extension housing swap is an easier solution. Then find a good drive line shop to shorten and balance the drive shaft.
I did not intend for this to be such a lengthy post, but hopefully the focus on fitment questions can keep the thread in check. Obviously with the 4R70W a controller is needed, but it does not necessarily impact 'Fitment' other then where to put the controller and route the wiring. I am going with Baumann controller.
Any and all help is appreciated. We will document as we go, so others can benefit.
Regards,
Rob & Bobby
Specifically we are looking for the basics around only 'Fitment' questions (for now). 4R70W fitment can be broken down into the below areas. Each area is listed along with what I think we know and questions for what we are looking to learn (highlighted in red).
Project: Swap from C4 to 4R70W in a 1966 Mustang Coupe
1) Bellhousing - SBF housing can be found on 5.0, 4.2, 3.8 engines (2 bolt starter). 4.6 & 5.4 have the wrong bolt pattern(3 bolt starter). What about the bellhousing separator plate between the engine block and the tranny bellhousing. I assume that the existing one between the 289 and the C4 will not work, but I need one from a 5.0 engine that had a 4R70W, but looking for advise/confirmation.
2) Tunnel - It appears that the tunnel will not require any modification, however there are 4 tabs on the tranny case that should cut-off. Can anyone confirm? I am not certain if the tunnel size on a 65/66 is smaller then 67 and up, but any pictures in a 65/66 would be great. I have included some pics of the tabs I believe need removed from the 4R70W.
3) Exhaust - Long tubes will give you more of an issue, so shorties are a safer bet. I think I am good on the exhaust mods needed.
4) Cross-member - This one is giving me trouble. There are some posts that indicate that the AOD swap cross-members will work, but I have yet to see validation. Compared to the existing C4, the mount holes on cross-member need to be 3 inches further aft. I believe that is approximately 1 inch further back then the AOD. Also, the parking brake equalizer arm pivots off of a bracket welded to the cross-member for 65/66. I might be left with fabricating my own, but has anyone found a crossmember that will fit?
5) Shifter & MLPS(Manual Lever Position Sensor) - I will be using the stock shift and I have seen various solutions, but looking for a specific early mustang example/pics. Most have used a cable but I have heard of one solution that uses a fabricated steel arm (but I have not seen any pics). For those using a cable, what did you fabricate under the floor-shifter to anchor the cable housing?I have also been told that I need to rotate the gear selector shaft 180 degrees so it points down and also reposition the MLPS so they do not interfere with the tunnel. Can anyone confirm this? Rotating it is simple, but want to make sure it is required. If rotated, I need to make sure the floor shifter movements matches up with the gear selector shaft direction for P R N OD 2 L.
6) Drive shaft - These adjustments are pretty simple. You will have to decide on either changing over to the larger OD slip yoke or swaping the tail extension housing on 4R70W with one from an AOD(either 10.5 or 11.5 inch variations), which will allow you to use your existing C4 or T5 slip yoke. AOD extension housing swap is an easier solution. Then find a good drive line shop to shorten and balance the drive shaft.
I did not intend for this to be such a lengthy post, but hopefully the focus on fitment questions can keep the thread in check. Obviously with the 4R70W a controller is needed, but it does not necessarily impact 'Fitment' other then where to put the controller and route the wiring. I am going with Baumann controller.
Any and all help is appreciated. We will document as we go, so others can benefit.
Regards,
Rob & Bobby