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Bizarre engine problem: (

Yes Pete, Gary dhad a difficult time seeing,feeling the coat hanger move, so there's room for error in being exact without the purpose of the balancer!
As for the pin? It's ok!
I'm almost tempted to re-install the HEI with all of its wires and see how it runs, wouldn't take me long to do! And see if the timing problem is all a mis-diagnosis!! Maybe there's just something wrong with this new MSD dist!



"AzPete" said:
Yes, put you coat hanger in the plug hole, have one person watch it for movement, have the other person turn the engine to align the timing marks. You are so close that I think you are ok there. At the very top of the piston stroke, there is almost a dead spot of no up or down movement.....I say almost.....as it is very hard to see.

Looks to me like the dist. is off a tooth or the pin has sheared on the gear.

Does the rotor fit tight? Does the rotor have a bit of spring tension to it and snap back in place?
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Dne
You mentioned early in this thread then , when spraying brake cleaner on the right side of the carburator , the engine responds some kind to it .????
If thats so , I think you have a vacuum leak between the intake manifold and heads.????
Are the spark plugs dry after several attemps to start the car ??
 
HEI re-install

Guess what? It runs fine and is right on the timing mark! :rant
Just for the heck of it, I checked all the plug wires on the MSD and all within the ohms range, ok two may be a bit higher, but that still doesn't account for the previous phenomenon! What do I do next? Put the MSD back on and see if it does the same thing?
 
Yes Pete,
It's obviously a bad MSD dist. I had a mechanic friend just left, we put the MSD back in, for him to diagnose. He was betwixxed as much as I have been over the past couple days in trying to reason this. I'm kind of sad to see that the MSD is made in china, or that's what is stamped on the MSD coil package. We are so sold out to china :shrug. However, I'll contact MSD Monday and see how to go about what to do.


"AzPete" said:
There may be a defect in the other dist. Return it for an exchange.....
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This is the sixth or seventh MSD ignition failure I've heard of this year. Killed any thoughts i had of going that way - quality seems to have gone to ...
 
I've had a MSD 6AL in my car now for over 6 yrs. In fact, it's one of the few things that has NOT broken from track abuse!
 
How was I to know! But after seeing so many complaints posted on various sites,didn't do my homework, just china's way of getting to us! Lol. I was rather hurt seeing the "made in China" on the packaging! If this dies again, guess I'll look for something else and just eat the 400.00 pricetag for "quality"! Plus carry a spare distributor in the trunk! Repair will take about 10 days(I'm told) not incuding shipping. I'd put my HEI back in, but it died a couple weeks ago, but works occasionally, but being stranded is just downright embarrassing!



"apollard" said:
This is the sixth or seventh MSD ignition failure I've heard of this year. Killed any thoughts i had of going that way - quality seems to have gone to ...
Click to expand...
 
I'll put in a plug here for HEI - theyare cheap and easy to fix. The main failure is the module, and it's available at any autoparts store for around $15.

To get around your issue with the large cap on the HEI, I am running a duraspark distributor with an HEI ignition module. The Duraspark dist is easily available, and you can use the normal sized cap. Except for the extra wire going to the mudule (which can be hidden), it looks completely stock.

IMNSHO, for most street driven vehicles any thing above duraspark / hei level provides no advantage - and I've never seen a dyno test to disprove that opinion.
 
The last time I had ignition troubles it was due to a series of defective MSD spark amplifiers, 6As and 6ALs. I would never take a chance on another one. Crane Hi6R is the one I use. I don't know if your dizzie problem is related to the Made in China factor, but in any event it's up to MSD to maintain quality control and to stand behind its products. My experience was in the mid-90s, and at that time MSD would do neither. IMO your experience is just more of the same, not something new.
 
In the meantime

So its probably going to be a couple weeks before I get my "repaired" MSD dist. I'd like to get it running for the Nifty50ee's this weekend's Halloween get together. How do iknow which module to get for the HEI? Do I just remove the old module and the auto parts can match one up for me?

What happened on the HEI, I took my brother for a drive, parked to eat, came back out, then it wouldn't start. Had fire going into the coil, but no spark at the plug. My husband showed up with a tow rope, pulled the car home, the engine cooled down, then it started. So that's symptoms of a bad module! Is a module easy to install? Like nothing technical? I'm getting really good at stabbing distributors!! That use to really be a fear! Nothing like learning by repetition!
 
Yes, a parts store can match it up. 90+% of the modules are a generic four wire replacement (wells #dr100)- and the symptoms you describe are the typical failure from heat. You'll unbolt it, remove wires, then put the heat sink grease on the new one (very important). Reconnect wires, bolt down, ready to go. A quick search shows prices from $15 to $75 (for the super duper ones). Get the $15 model, they work fine.

The main enemy of these are heat, and mounting them in the dist causes them to fail eventually, although it is a nice clean install. I've run an el cheapo model for years with it mounted in a box on the firewall - old trick I learned from my Chebbie loving diesel mechanic grandfather.

A few of these use a seven pin module, but that is mainly chebbies or boats.

Edit: here's a link to a pic, Rock has them for $21

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1186095
 
Thanks Pollard!
I'll try my auto parts tomorrow. I only need the HEI to work until I get the MSD back. The MSD I have isnt serviceable by mortal DIY'ers. Has to be sent to MSD every time it will breakdown. Guess I'll make a neat little box to carry my HEI in and wires, how sad! I'll have little confidence in whatever I run!
I may eventually look into the Duraspark you mentioned, and migrate that way in the near future. Now its just hurry up and wait! ; )
 
Duraspark is a good system, but more expensive and does not provide any advantage over HEI. I've also seen that the replacement Duraspark controllers are failure prone also, but have no experience with it.

I run a duraspark distributor activating a HEI module - small stock looking Ford distrubutor, but with HEI's lower expense (and when mounted away from the engine, quite reliable). Plus, at $20 you can carry a spare ( I have one, but have never needed it for an HEI module mounted away from the engine heat). Here's a link to what I am running - ignore the EFI discussion, it works the same on any 302/289:

http://www.carbdford.com/tech/HEI/hei.htm

I cut off the connector on the distributor and replaced it with a weatherpack connector (more GM stuff), as well as mounting the HEI in a cheap Radio Shack alum. box. Painted the box the same as the engine compartment, and it blends right in (sorry, no pics right now).

Edit: the discussion above talks about breaking the posts off the HEI module. I doubt not need to to that for your HEI distributor, as it will have the holes for the post by design)
 
I had an HEI when we first put my motor together.

It was too big to fit between the Monte Carlo bar and air cleaner so I sold it on Craig's list and used the money to buy a Petronix.

Have not had any complaints after over a year..... running mild cam, ported GT40's, Holley 600, etc, etc.

I had kicked around switching to an MSD set up before but figured there wouldn't be enough gain to justify the cost.
 
Update(again!)

Got my 8352 model number MSD distributor back yesterday, put it in, you know, just simply installed it, not taking up any part of my day like I have nothing better to do! Only to get the same results as before! They replaced the pcboard inside the dist.
I spoke to tech at MSD a few minutes ago, I'm almost in tears about this but more overwhelmed by frustration!! :rant. He told me to send the coil and dist back and he'll replace both with new. There goes another 10-14 days of waiting, not to mention shipping and handling. I'll put the HEI back in again so I can drive.

At least I did have another person over here to witness the running problem, so it's not something I'm doing incorrectly.
 
When it gets back, sell it on the 'bay and go pertronix or duraspark/hei combo. Small dist cap, and won't leave you stranded (or if necessary, easily repairable at home).

MSD has become crap. Boaters that use them carry a complete spare so they can make it home.
 
Whatever ignition I use, it has to fit beneath my new Shelby air cleaner, that I haven't even got to install yet! So it has to be a low distributor. I've never sold anything on eBay and a little reluctant to sell this MSD to anyone knowing what I know now! I feel I'm kind of stuck with a lemon. I made my spark plug wires from MSD, and I'd like to use them if possible. I've been looking at the duraspark, but would need some strong advice in how to proceed, otherwise the pertronix may be the path of least resistance? I see on Summit that the distributor alone is about 230. So, when the the next MSD shows up, hopefully in a new box, I'll just put it on the shelf I guess, or just use the the darned thing if it works! Just would need a backup distributor, I'm going to work on my truck today and give the thought a rest regarding ignitions. Overall if I had known it was china made, I would have chosen a different path for sure! ; ). I just don't want to waste any more money!!!

:pbj
"apollard" said:
When it gets back, sell it on the 'bay and go pertronix or duraspark/hei combo. Small dist cap, and won't leave you stranded (or if necessary, easily repairable at home).

MSD has become crap. Boaters that use them carry a complete spare so they can make it home.
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Can always run the MSD and keep the HEI&wires you have now in the trunk - $0 cost. Just gotta be prepared if you run the MSD. OTOH, maybe this one will last-
 
Update on MSD dist

What a circus with this MSD ignition! I just got off the phone with Vic at MSD, again. This 8352 dist will not be back in stock until the end of january. I asked what I'm supposed to do as a dissatisfied customer, am I supposed to wait patiently, get the dist, put it on eBay for a couple hindered if lucky to get that, he didnt really have any response other than,"mam, you will be receiving a new distributor when theyre back in stock". So that makes me a satisfied customer? The other option is to contact the people that I bought the ignition set from in the first place and see if they will refund my money. So I'm fixing to call them right now.
This is kind looney!
 
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