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Collected car today from the shop ... fun never stops

Discussion in 'Engine and Drivetrain/Mechanical' started by JonnybravoM3, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    So they are still running tests on the motor, but they called me to tell me the compression test showed 60% loss.

    Waiting for other results, but they said seems my engine has never been overhauled and may not have much life left. Gonna go in tomorrow and discuss. They suggested looking into a 302 crate engine, or a 289. Anyone done this? Would it be worth it to just overhaul the existing engine?

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  2. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    I would first do some investigating to determine if the current engine is the original. Date coding will tell the story. Engines are not stamped to match vehicle VINs with old mustangs. If it is the original there is a case to be made for rebuilding it to remain with the car. Bore would have to be checked to make sure it is "virgin" or at least can take another re-working.

    From a practical standpoint a modern 302 crate makes sense. You just need to be clear on your direction as different set-ups will have different water pump styles which impact radiator inlet/outlet positions as well as belt options (likely a serpentine belt arrangement would be the choice). All SBFs have the same mounting bosses so that is easy. You would need to verify your transmission bellhousing (bolt pattern). Early units had a 5 bolt design that would not like a newer block.

    From my personal standpoint I would rebuild the engine I had so I knew what I was dealing with as far as a "core" and exactly what went into it and how it was done. I trust no one but myself so I put my own engines together. If you are not up to that then make sure you research the supplier or the builder you choose. My 2 cents
     
  3. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    Thank you. I would definitely keep my old engine if I went in this direction, would keep it in my garage.

    But yes I'm gonna read more into this and wait until they have thoroughly checked everything.

    What about a crate 289? Just to put an engine that belonged to my car. I don't care about power.

    Regarding direction, yes correct I guess they will ask me all these questions when ordering to make sure everything matches and fits. Guess they will also dyno the engine. From there I hope it's just plug and play, set up the fiTech etc etc...
     
  4. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    Finding a decent 289 block to rebuild can be a challenge. Finding a catalog type crate 289 I don't think is possible. All the crates I have ever seen are based on a 302. Honestly, you couldn't tell anyway from the looking. At least a casual observer.
     
  5. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    Honestly I think I would much rather have them rebuild my 289 if possible rather than going for a crate. I'm meeting them tomorrow to discuss.

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  6. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    Good news, went and saw the tech today, he said in fact my car is fine and healthy. He said he drove it and it ran well, the only issue being overheating when AC is on. So at are getting a new alum radiator with electric fan with 160 thermostat and a new higher capacity alternator. Then hopefully, we are done and I can enjoy my car over summer, fingers crossed.

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  7. c6fastback

    c6fastback Member

    I say ditch the 160 stat . Stick with a 180 at the minimum.
    Why are they recommending a 160?
     
    msell66 and Grabber70Mach like this.
  8. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    Living here is like Arizona or Texas. Temps reach 120F here in the summer. Want the fans to come on sooner.

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  9. Boom

    Boom Active Member

    I'm in Texas, never had an issue using a 195* thermostat.

    From everything I've read, and I mean literally everything, a 160* thermostat is bad for your engine. Yes, it'll work and keep your temps down, but it'll exaggerate wear and other issues.

    I hope it works out for you.
     
  10. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    What's the harm of a 160?

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  11. Boom

    Boom Active Member

    Have you searched what running too low of a thermostat can do?

    -There is actually more friction in a motor that is 20 degrees too cool,
    than one which is 20 degrees too hot.

    -When an engine runs cold so does its lubricating oil, which means more potential for moisture and acid to form in its oil. At higher temps (both oil and engine) harmful deposits are boiled off. This prevents the slow destruction of bearing material and shortened engine life.
    When an engine runs too cold, the fuel economy goes down, often way down. A decrease of fuel mileage isn'’t unusual and as fuel consumption increases so does wear. Wear increases because of two factors. First, the cold engine doesn'’t heat the oil sufficiently and harmful deposits, moisture, and acid accumulate rapidly, then eat away at the inside of your engine.

    Tuner (I know) but it points out common misconceptions:
    http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/

    Corvette people asking the same question:
    https://www.corvetteforum.com/forum...wer-thermostat-make-an-engine-run-cooler.html

    http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/aftermarket-parts/1308-low-temp-thermostats/

    https://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunen...85-what-s-the-point-of-lower-temp-thermostats
     
  12. C6ZZGT

    C6ZZGT New Member

    I read all this and kept wondering what temp you think the engine should run at ?
     
  13. 65coupei6

    65coupei6 Member

  14. GypsyR

    GypsyR just some guy

    Threw me right out the window. Earlier there was this "the compression test showed 60% loss." Kind of odd phrasing but it sounds like they did a leakdown test maybe? If so, the engine shouldn't even be able to run. a 30% loss means something is terribly wrong. 20% you are looking at rebuilding the engine because of wear. Better than 10% is quite healthy. So 60% would be like junk or something. I guess I have to assume a mistake or miscommunication was made on that one.

    Ford specified (and still does) that our cars perform best and are most efficient with 190-195 degree F thermostats. As long as the rest of your cooling system is in good shape that thermostat should take you through the Sahara desert. Anyone who runs a 160 F thermostat is usually trying to cover a cooling problem that needs to be properly repaired. Or they are badly misinformed.
     
  15. Horseplay

    Horseplay I Don't Care. Do you?

    Easy on the OP guys. He is new to classic cars and admittedly knows little to nothing about wrenching on the car himself. He lives in Bahrain (yes, the "Middle East") and is having all this work/diagnosis done by mechanics there. I can't imagine the mechanics level of expertise and knowledge on 60 year old American cars is very extensive. It was just taken to a different shop where they apparently have more experience on such. He recently bought and imported the car and by all signs it was not as advertised in terms of condition. Big surprise, I know.
     
  16. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    Haha thanks for the summary. But I'm enjoying the learning experience to be honest. Learning doesnt stop for any of us really.

    Honestly, the car is great and runs great. As was mentioned before, everything that happens happens due to something that I've done to the car, an upgrade that I've done. Without a doubt, ugrading and updating to a more "modern" car takes tweaks here and there and some knowledge from experience. Even now one of my Wilwood brakes has a leak.. that I just got from Summit last month.

    Before buying the car, I had it checked by Chris "the doc" Ingrassia owner of Mustang Restorations out of Dundee, Illinois. Read about him and seems he's a pro and very experienced in this field. He's got his YouTube channel which is a useful reference.

    The new garage is taking good care of the car and they have experience working on our cars, have rebuilt and restored many American classics including 60s Mustangs. All that's left for me now is a new radiator and alternator and hopefully we are done. I was told my motor is in good shape for its age, they believe that it has never been overhauled, but this might be required at some point in the coming year or so, but for today, its fine.

    Hoping for the best.




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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  17. 65coupei6

    65coupei6 Member

    Thanks for the update. I hope you get it back soon so you can enjoy it.
     
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  18. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    Quick update, car almost ready, got new powermaster 140amp alternator being put in and new Be Cool Show and Go polished alum radiator with 16" electric fan and all the trimmings...

    You guys were right, BeCool told my shop that the 195 thermostat works best with their system, so we got that instead of the 160.

    Also got the fuel cell pressure releasing vent valve so as to hopefully completely kill the gas smell emanating from the car in my garage when parked.

    Home stretch now, just need to get the parts installed and we are ready to Rock n Roll.

    Thanks as always for your support and guidance all.

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    Boom likes this.
  19. Boom

    Boom Active Member

    Awesome, sounds like you're getting quite the upgrade. Which fuel vent did you use? I need one for my car.
     
  20. JonnybravoM3

    JonnybravoM3 Member

    As for vent, I have the Tanks,Inc roll-over vent valve to go with my new fuel tank with in-tank pump.

    And now went for this one, came recommended by a fellow member of these forums, to regulate venting based on pressure. Hopefully this means that most venting will occur when driving and will stop when parked in my garage, as long as pressure remains at a certain level.

    https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8453

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