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still won't start

R

RustyRed

Active Member
I secured my ground strap better...even used a self tapping bolt with star washer to make a new hole in the firewall.

Still a no go.

If my starter was bad would it turn over at all? Some times when cranking the motor I hear a "knocking" sort of sound down near the starter area...not sure if that's my problem or if I should be looking for something else?
 
When my starter went out last week, it was grinding when turning and it also had a heavy knocking sound on a cold start. I could tell when a piston hit a compression stroke as it would almost stop spinning. It still started the engine but I think it was about 1 start from dying when I replaced it. A bad starter CAN rob enough voltage from the battery to not allow a hot enough spark to start. Cranking fast enough to start can be an issue.
 
"AzPete" said:
When my starter went out last week, it was grinding when turning and it also had a heavy knocking sound on a cold start.
Click to expand...

I am hearing the heavy knocking sound from the area of the starter and it almost starts but just doesn't quite make it....

Think maybe I should look into replacing my starter?

After I did all the rewiring it started right up and I started it one other time to check the voltage at the choke and it started right up that time also. But since you can crank it all you want...it will turn over but not start. After just a few tries to crank it the battery goes to zilch so I have the charger on it at the moment.
 
Two bolts, unhook the wire and a trip to the store should tell you if its bad. Get the lifetime warranty if you have to replace it.
 
Are you sure that the battery is good/fully charged?

Remember that an idling ALT doesn't really produce much amperage to recharge a battery. RPM's need to be up around 2k to get good steady amperage to recharge the battery. Oftentimes during initial engine installation/troubleshooting the battery will go dead because it's been starting the engine, but not getting recharged by the ALT.

Check your battery also.
 
I'll check the battery while I am at it...figure if I am taking the starter to O'Reilly tomorrow to have it tested might as well drag the battery along as well.

I charged the battery for several hours yesterday because some nameless moron (me) was trying to get it to turn over and ran the battery down. It sounded strong again after some time on the charger.

The battery is about a year old but I am going to dig out the receipt and take it over with me when I hit the auto parts tomorrow. If it by off chance is bad it should still be under warranty and a free replacement kind of deal.

Guess I know my plans for this evening after the boys go to bed, LOL!
 
Have them test run the starter at least twice. Mine sounded fair on the first test. The second test was much worse. My comment to the clerk was it makes no difference to me how it sounds here, I am buying a new one......
 
Got it pulled, took maybe 30 minutes but part of that was looking for a particular ratchet to get the top bolt...easy job really.

Looking at the starter it would appear it's probably seen it's better days. Between that and the knock, knock, knock sound when trying to crank the car I am leaning towards not even having them test it.

Hopefully I'll be up and running by 10 am tomorrow since O'Reilly opens at 9 a.m., LOL!
 
Ok, update....

The starter is new and the "clack, clack, clack" sound when trying to turn her over is gone thankfully.

They replaced my battery for free because it was dead. But after an engine build and wire project it's been off the road a lot since about the first of October so that really wasn't a surprise.

The bad news...still won't start. Just cranks and cranks.

Last night I double checked all the wiring related to the Pertronix, double checked the gap, etc. Everything seems fine there and it did start twice with the Pertronix installed.

Debating what to check now. Maybe try running a keyed 12 volt source to the coil to basically bypass the pink resistor wire? I suppose a bad starter could have burned out the Pertronix module? Maybe stick my points back in and see if she cranks?

Only other thoughts is to maybe yank the alternator off and take it to O'Reilly to be tested...it's only two bolts then a few small bolts holding the wires on the back. I can't imagine what the odd of having a bad starter and bad alternator are but I'd say the odds are pretty long.

My hunch is this is somehow related to the Pertronix....
 
My hunch is this is somehow related to the Pertronix....
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding we have a winner. I will not run that stuff in my cars. Both of the ones I have had in the 67 and the 66 I sold, were crap! I know there are many of you guys out there that run them, but I had problems with two of them. Took one back and got a new one that failed too. So, no more for me.

I would put the points back in it for now. But get back to basics here.

#1, do you have spark at the plugs?
#2 is the dizzy turning?
#3 do you have spark at the coil?
#4 did you check the voltage at the coil?

You know you could have a bad coil.

It takes a couple things to start 'em up, Spark, fuel and timing. Once you have checked your spark and ignition system, and that doesn't fix it, you need to check the rest.

My hunch is since you just did a bunch of electrical work, is the Petronix stuff is blown up and possibly your coil. May be your resistor wire as well.

Good luck, let us know.

Mel
 
Thinking of starting with putting the points back in. Question though....what do I gap them?

The shop manual simply says gap them to your specs but doesn't bother to tell me if we are talking .03" or what....LOL!
 
I think it is .17 to .20....

IIRC. It has been a long time since I have had to do mine. I did a quick google search and the 390 is .17.

Mel
 
I am assuming I tested this correctly...I turned the key to on then put each probe of my meter (set to volts) to each terminal on the coil.

Came up with between 5.75 and 6...needless to say that is less than the 12 volts they suggest.

I am thinking of quickly running a jumper wire from the Petronix hot wire to the positive battery terminal like they suggest to see if it starts with more volts.

If it's a voltage problem couldn't I run a wire from the Pertronix hot wire back to the yellow three pronged plug near the fuse box under the dash? I was thinking that yellow deal is a 12 volt keyed source?
 
"RustyRed" said:
I am assuming I tested this correctly...I turned the key to on then put each probe of my meter (set to volts) to each terminal on the coil.

Came up with between 5.75 and 6...needless to say that is less than the 12 volts they suggest.

I am thinking of quickly running a jumper wire from the Petronix hot wire to the positive battery terminal like they suggest to see if it starts with more volts.

If it's a voltage problem couldn't I run a wire from the Pertronix hot wire back to the yellow three pronged plug near the fuse box under the dash? I was thinking that yellow deal is a 12 volt keyed source?
Click to expand...

Pertronix units usually crash when you leave the key in the ON position but the car not running.

Yes, the yellow is a 12V keyed source, only it is active when key is anywhere other than OFF. ACC works as well...see comment immediately above.

I'd run directly from the battery to the + side of the coil as a test to see if you can get the car to start. Don't leave it on for very long, however, without the car running.

Measure the voltage at the coil from the + side of the coil to the chassis or battery ground, not from the + to - side of the coil.
 
I measured between coil plus side and the neg bat post and got 6.5

Just for fun I stuck the points back in but I dont have the right gap guage handy. Just taking a seat of the pants best guess it almost started, lol
 
Sounds like your pink resistor wire may be a bit on the high side. Midlife run's 6.9V just fine with petronix. Who worked on your harness? Ooops...I did! It should pass muster. Try re-seating the connector into the ignition plug.

Are you running a Ford tach? It's possible it's robbing some voltage, but it shouldn't. If you do run a tach, simply by-pass it and see if the engine catches.

Are you running an aftermarket tach? If so, remove it from the circuit at the coil and see if that helps.

When cranking, the coil should get a full 12V from the starter solenoid, and bypasses the pink resistor wire. Next time you attempt to crank it, slip the connector off of the coil (+ side) and measure voltage at the removed connector while you are cranking. That should tell us quite a bit here...
 
"Midlife" said:
Sounds like your pink resistor wire may be a bit on the high side. Midlife run's 6.9V just fine with petronix. Who worked on your harness? Ooops...I did! It should pass muster. Try re-seating the connector into the ignition plug.
Click to expand...

Do you mean have a look at the part that plugs into the ignition switch to make sure it's plugged in good?

Not running a tach at all so that would be a non-issue for me.
 
Yeah. The pink resistor wire plugs into a short pigtail that comes out of the ignition switch. That's how voltage gets to the coil when the car is running. I'd ignore working on that for now.

Are you saying that while cranking the starter, the engine just doesn't catch, but just cranks over? If you have 6.5V while cranking, then the starter solenoid is not giving the right voltage while cranking. If you have ~12V while cranking, then something is wrong with the distributor/petronix.

The car should at least catch on fire while cranking. If the resistor wire system is not up to snuff, the engine would die as soon as you turn the key from CRANK to ON.

Another issue may be that the starter cable has deteriorated, and is demanding too many amps to turn the starter. When this happens, the voltage drops on the battery and then there's not enough voltage at the coil while cranking to fire the engine.
 
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