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Are you kidding me?!

K

Kats66Pny

Active Member
Decided to take Gertrude out today for a little cruising around to see how she's running. Went and picked up my daughter from school so her friends could all drool like they always did over the '66, then drove to O'Reillys to say hi (but the guys who want to see her weren't working until 5pm) so we came home.

Pulled into the driveway. Turned the key off.... and it didn't cut off! :rant

I remembered someone saying to smack the solenoid if it does that again so I did and the car turned off. Waited a few, started it back up and let it run a few then turned it off and it turned off that time.


Why am I being cursed with solenoid issues?! :wtf
 
What brand solenoid did you buy? I have seen new ones out the box that were bad, Wells is a very cheap brand most parts stores carry. I try to get motorcraft or BWD select (copper contacts and studs). Good luck with a replacement one, I'd swap it out before it becomes a safety issue.
Try smacking the old man and tell him to change the solenoid...
Jon
 
I think I read recently that a bad charging system can destroy solenoids. Have you charging system chacked.
 
That's odd. The only way the solenoid would cause that issue would be if it was supplying 12V to the I terminal but not the starter lug.
 
I wonder if there is a bad ground point for the solenoid, which would be common to every starter solenoid. The case has to be grounded to the chassis, and if there is too much paint build-up where the bolts connect to the apron or a poor ground path to the car chassis...
 
Have you corrected the wiring as noted by Mach1rider in your other post?
http://www.stangfix.com/testforum2/inde ... cseen.html

You must have the +battery cable going to the left side post (facing solenoid) and the right side post cable going to the starter. It appears in that other thread that your +batt. cable (red?) goes to the right one. The solenoid circuit is not bidirectional TMK meaning you can't switch the cable side to side, at some point a PO switched them I'm guessing.

You should not need that extra grounding wire if the solenoid is grounded properly. If the grounding hole doesn't tighten (metal screw) then I'd switch to a bolt with a lockwasher/ nut on the backside.
Jon
 
"Kats66Pny" said:
I read about the ground and was thinking of drilling new holes and using new screws. See if that helps any.
Click to expand...

Just get a star washer under there you'll be fine. Certainly no need for new holes.
 
"gtscode" said:
Just get a star washer under there you'll be fine. Certainly no need for new holes.
Click to expand...

One of the holes is little stretched out.. one of the big screws holding the solenoid doesn't get really tight like the other side. Will just a star washer work?
 
Nut the backside.
Click to expand...

Sounds like something Mid would say....

Does that ground wire that is between the apron and the solenoid go straight to the battery cable? If so it will ground the solenoid just fine as long as the bolt can be tightened.

I assume if this wire is in fact going to the battery you also have a large one from the battery to the block. You should also have one from the block to the firewall.
 
That big ground going from the apron/solenoid on the left goes down to front of the engine block. That's how it was when I got the car so I put it back. Need or not, who knows.

There is another small thin ground wire that goes from the engine block to the firewall that I purchased from a mustang supplier when I bought new harnesses for the engine bay.

The red cable is the battery and runs from the solenoid, over the shock tower and then down and goes through a frame rail, under the car up to the battery in the truck. There is another ground in the trunk (which is welded to the trunk floor) for batt ground.
 
"Kats66Pny" said:
That big ground going from the apron/solenoid on the left goes down to front of the engine block. That's how it was when I got the car so I put it back. Need or not, who knows.

There is another small thin ground wire that goes from the engine block to the firewall that I purchased from a mustang supplier when I bought new harnesses for the engine bay.

The red cable is the battery and runs from the solenoid, over the shock tower and then down and goes through a frame rail, under the car up to the battery in the truck. There is another ground in the trunk (which is welded to the trunk floor) for batt ground.
Click to expand...

That being the case, it's very important that particular cable be good and tight. I would clean the dirt/paint off the the outside of the apron where your bolt is going though so you have good contact, run a 1/4x20 bolt (like the bolts that hold the fender to the apron) through the ground wire, solenoid bracket then the apron in that order then put a nut on the other side of the apron. Use a nut that has a built in washer and serrations.

You can find those type of bolts and nuts at lowes in the specialty fastener section. As a matter of fact, they have them in cad plating.
 
"Jonk67" said:
Have you corrected the wiring as noted by Mach1rider in your other post?
http://www.stangfix.com/testforum2/inde ... cseen.html

You must have the +battery cable going to the left side post (facing solenoid) and the right side post cable going to the starter. It appears in that other thread that your +batt. cable (red?) goes to the right one. The solenoid circuit is not bidirectional TMK meaning you can't switch the cable side to side, at some point a PO switched them I'm guessing.
Jon
Click to expand...
I didn't think about that, but he's absolutely right. If you have the battery + cable going to the right side of the solenoid, you're going to be supplying 12V to the I terminal at all times, which would keep the engine running with the key turned off.
 
"Starfury" said:
I didn't think about that, but he's absolutely right. If you have the battery + cable going to the right side of the solenoid, you're going to be supplying 12V to the I terminal at all times, which would keep the engine running with the key turned off.
Click to expand...

Even if the batt cable was on the incorrect side, wouldn't this not turning off happen everytime I tried turning the car off? It only happens every now and then.

Anyway to clear it up... The battery cable is connected to the left side. It was only connected to the right side on the first solenoid I replaced because the solenoid posts were reversed.

Original setup with hacked up wiring when I bought Gertrude with the solenoid that came on her.
harness7.jpg



After I replaced all the wiring in the bay and replaced solenoid, car wouldn't start - did absolutely nothing when I tried to turn it on - so I had it towed to my favorite restoration shop (classicdoug's shop) and had them troubleshoot and double check the wiring figuring maybe I did put something on wrong, as well as go over the new disc brakes I put on. They figured out the issue was I had the temp & coil wires mixed up and they swapped those two and the solenoid was reversed....with batt on right, starter on left. I hooked it up with batt on left like it originally was. So the cables looked like this after the troubleshooting and the car started.
3-1.jpg


I remembered that they said solenoid was reversed and it being mentioned how odd that was, so the other 2 solenoids I've put in, I put the batt & starter like they were originally (batt on left, started on right). Maybe this new motorcraft solenoid is reversed like the first one? :shrug
 
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The first pic has the wires correct but missing the brown I wire.

The second pic has the batt/start wires rev but has the S and I wires correct.
The no start problem was the temp/coil wires rev, That gave a dead ground to the coil power.
Having the batt/ starter cable rev will allow it to start, But it will eventually burn out the diode in the sol.

This is the wiring done correctly.
 

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The first pic has the wires correct but missing the brown I wire.
Click to expand...

It wasn't needed. The PO had hacked up the original wiring to add aftermarket stuff. Hence why you see tons of electrical tape and a mess of wires. LOL

The second pic has the batt/start wires rev but has the S and I wires correct.
The no start problem was the temp/coil wires rev, That gave a dead ground to the coil power.
Having the batt/ starter cable rev will allow it to start, But it will eventually burn out the diode in the sol.

This is the wiring done correctly.
Click to expand...

I'm not the one that wired in that second picture. I had put the batt on the left and starter on the right, but it was swapped when the shop was troubleshooting the not starting issue. I drove it around and it died on me. Replaced battery and the melted starter cable. Car started and drove fine and then it started back up with it not wanting to turn off even with key out.

So I replaced the solenoid. Hooked up the wiring like it was originally (batt left, starter right). Didn't solve anything. Still had issues not turning off. Was told possible bad solenoid. So took the new one back, swapped it for another one. Hooked it back up with batt on left. Didn't work.. still had problems with it not turning off, but the car hasn't died while driving with the new optima battery we bought. Since it still had issues, that's when I went and bought this Motorcraft one like advised instead of the cheap o'reillys house brand... and it did it again.. didn't turn off so smacked the solenoid with a hammer and it unstuck and car turned off. So far I've started and turned off the car a few times and it hasn't stuck again.

This is the wiring and how I connected it all, and how it sits currently - when it didn't turn off the other day. See.. batt is on the left like you all are saying it should be. :nut
 

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I will go out on a limb here and say that the ground wire that you have attached to the sol is possiably the problem here.
Is that wire going to the eng block for your ground to the batt?
If so then remove it from the sol and attach it to the frame rail.
 
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