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Bob's really done it this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter JeffTepper
- Start date
Opentracker
Active Member
If it was SOLD, would that include the hardware we all paid for?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Interesting question, I had forgotten about that part.
Opentracker
Active Member
The sale price should be made public. I can't see how you could sell something that should be considered a comunity holding. The fact that all the members, including him, dontate thier time and money makes this a bit odd and leaves me a bit sour. The amount of members and the value of advertizing space on the site does give it a value but who owns that value. Not him IMO.
Sluggo
Active Member
"Opentracker" said:
I'd have to disagree with you on that one. It depends on how he registered the domain. If it's registered in his name, then it belongs to him and him only. If he registered it to his company, then it's owned by the company.
Opentracker
Active Member
Your right. I appologise if I'm out of line. It would depend on how he set it up back in 94.
I would like to know if any of our dotation dollars ended up in someones pocket. Not long ago we all chiped in 4K for new equipment. On average, ORP dontates $400 - $500 in cash/products to the site each year and we write it off on our taxes. The two group buys we did neted $1050 in donations.
I would like to know if any of our dotation dollars ended up in someones pocket. Not long ago we all chiped in 4K for new equipment. On average, ORP dontates $400 - $500 in cash/products to the site each year and we write it off on our taxes. The two group buys we did neted $1050 in donations.
Sluggo
Active Member
"Opentracker" said:
You're certainly not out of line.
JeffTepper
Well-Known Member
"Opentracker" said:
John:
I don't believe that any apologies are necessary. As near as I can tell the VMF is not a 501(c)3 tax exempt charity, thus any income or "donations" received by Bob in the name of the VMF would need to be reconciled with the taxing authorities if he treats his operation as above the table. I am not suggesting that everyone who donated funds or goods to the operation should issue a 1099 to Bob.
However, now that Bob has cashed in his chips, it brings to the forefront the simple truth that without Bob taking the initiative in 1994 there would be no VMF. At the same time, but for the loyal VMF members who helped to build the VMF community from nothing to what it is today through loyalty and selfless contributions of time and knowledge (and at times cash) there would be no VMF either. I guess what I am saying is that in addition to the value of the hardware and software that enable the VMF, the real value of the VMF in its present form is the sense of community that is/was built through the loyalty of the membership base over the years. Without the post volume generated through this loyalty I would expect that the advertising value of VMF in the internet world as well as the fair market value of the forum in the business world would be negligible. What started out as a loosely organized hobby has evolved into a for profit business that has value.
The difficult thing to reconcile is the value of loyalty, (the "goodwill" of the VMF), as it relates to the price paid for the ownership rights to the forum. At the end of the day Bob has the server "we" bought for him as well as other tangibles he purchased through donations, auctions, etc as well as the agreed value of member goodwill paid to Bob by the new owners. Effectively, it is no longer just a hobby and it appears that Bob sold us out.
As I have posted previously, the climate over at VMF has in my eyes changed over the past year and, not for the better. The sense of community that I felt in the past is drastically diminished. It will be interesting to see where VMF goes in the coming months and years.
Sluggo
Active Member
Some very astute observations, Jeff.
I guess it comes down to member expectations.
There are several bits of code that make up this site, some free, some require donations.
I have made contributions to boards in the past and I can't say that the thought of being entitled to anything beyond being a member ever crossed my mind.
Generally, I've made those contributions when I thought that I received something of value in the information which was shared with me. Nothing more.
If I donated something to a specific cause being sponsored by the board I viewed the end recipient as the person benefiting.
Don't get me wrong, not arguing your points at all. Just adding my own observations.
The server issue is a whole different animal. If the server was purchased with donations from members with the understanding that it allow their community to continue to exist and grow, then there is certainly an ethical factor to consider. If the site stays on that server then, no biggie. If it is moved off of that server, things get a little complicated. Does he keep the server and use it for his business, personal use? Does he owe anything to the donators?
How long did the board exist on that server? Servers usually have an end of life from 3 to 4 years. That's what would be looked at to determine if the users got their value from the server.
If it has been racked up and running for 3+ years, it has no real value other than what a salvage buyer would pay for it.
Personally, I think buying an Apple XServer was major overkill. There were plenty of other options that were far more economical and just as reliable.
The debate on this matter could go on and on.
Do not think for a minute that I'm taking sides with Bob or anyone else. With that said here is what I think is the bottom line.
The domain appears to be registered in his name. Vintage-mustang.com is Bob Dooley. Bob Dooley has the discretion to decide the fate of VMF.
Were the members sold out? My opinion, you bet your ass they were.
I guess it comes down to member expectations.
There are several bits of code that make up this site, some free, some require donations.
I have made contributions to boards in the past and I can't say that the thought of being entitled to anything beyond being a member ever crossed my mind.
Generally, I've made those contributions when I thought that I received something of value in the information which was shared with me. Nothing more.
If I donated something to a specific cause being sponsored by the board I viewed the end recipient as the person benefiting.
Don't get me wrong, not arguing your points at all. Just adding my own observations.
The server issue is a whole different animal. If the server was purchased with donations from members with the understanding that it allow their community to continue to exist and grow, then there is certainly an ethical factor to consider. If the site stays on that server then, no biggie. If it is moved off of that server, things get a little complicated. Does he keep the server and use it for his business, personal use? Does he owe anything to the donators?
How long did the board exist on that server? Servers usually have an end of life from 3 to 4 years. That's what would be looked at to determine if the users got their value from the server.
If it has been racked up and running for 3+ years, it has no real value other than what a salvage buyer would pay for it.
Personally, I think buying an Apple XServer was major overkill. There were plenty of other options that were far more economical and just as reliable.
The debate on this matter could go on and on.
Do not think for a minute that I'm taking sides with Bob or anyone else. With that said here is what I think is the bottom line.
The domain appears to be registered in his name. Vintage-mustang.com is Bob Dooley. Bob Dooley has the discretion to decide the fate of VMF.
Were the members sold out? My opinion, you bet your ass they were.