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Carburetor Tuning Help - Hesitation

67TXStang

Member
I'll apologize in advance for the length of this post but I could really, really use some help with my carburetor.

I removed my stock instake and 2100 carburetor in July. I installed a new Weiand Stealth intake and Holley 570 Street Avenger carburetor from Summit. I expected the parts to work well out of the box but it has not turned out that way. From the start, I have had two problems I've not been able to fix.

Problem 1) I have a hesitation under moderate to heavy acceleration. It is brief and then the car takes off. I've checked for vacuum leaks, increased timing, changed accerator cams, changed pump nozzles, and several other things people have suggested. None of these have corrected the problem and I'm at a loss on how to fix it. I've stopped short of changing the jets which is the last suggestion I was given.

Problem 2) The Holley video which came with the carb states you should turn the idle mixture screws two turns out and then connect a vaccum gauge. You should adjust them equally until the vaccum is at the highest measurement. I've tried this but adjusting the screws made no difference in vaccum. I've just set them at 2 turns out and have left it but it seems this is not great and might contribute to the first problem.

As I stated, the most recent suggestion was to change to larger jets. Before doing this, I thought of buying an air/fuel gauge. Once I learned of the cost, I decided against it as I've already dumped too much into trying to get this carburetor to work. Instead, I thought I would pull the plugs to look at them.

Before changing the carburetor, I took pictures of the plugs and they were all the same and looked good. When I pulled them out last night, they are all a little darker. Plug 1, 4, and 7 are covered in a dark black powder. These are fed by the same side of the carb so I wonder if this is a sign the idle mixture screws should not be set the same on each side.

Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated in fixing this problem? Any chance the carburetor is bad and should be returned?
 

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Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Plug Reading

On my last '66/302, I had that intake with a Holly 600. Same stumble. I did it all like you and finally got rid of it with a change of the jets.

As for the mixture screws not doing anything, that is usually the results of having the idle screw set to high. This causes the carb to by pass the idle circuit.

Dry, black plugs indicate rich burning. Too much fuel. Get the other things first, then the plugs should clean up.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Plug Reading

Thanks for the response Pete.

I'm setting the idle mixture screws with the idle at 600 RPM. When troubleshooting with someone before, they thought it was the idle was too high. Once I told them I was setting idle mixture screws at 600 RPM, they asked me to screw in the curb idle screw all the way to see if the engine would die. I screwed it all the way in and the idle drops to 400, the car runs very rough, but it never dies. I was told this was an indication of a problem but no one could tell me what.

When you say get the other things first, do you mean get new jets or fix the idle mixture?
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Plug Reading

I would set the mixture first along with the idle. Get the engine running as good as you can as things are now. Back out the ide screw until the throttle plate stops moving. Then go about 1/2 turn in so the plate just moves.

Also, check the choke linkage to make sure it if allowing the throttle to return to the set screw. You may have to manually release the choke linkage unless things are warm.

Then, I start with the mixtures at 1 1/2 turn out and go from there with the vacuum gauge or, I will adjust it by ear, test drive and adjust again.

Then, change the jets if you still have the flat spot.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

I replaced the intake gasket this weekend as the cork gasket I used at the back was leaking oil. I used RTV and a new FelPro gasket. I let everything setup overnight and then started it tonight.

After the engine warmed up, I set the timing appropriately. I can't detect much movement in the throttle plate when turning the curb idle screw. I turned it in and then turned it out until I could just hear the engine start to speed up slightly. At this point, the vacuum was at 17 inches (normal for my engine).

I have the idle mixture screws set 1.5 turns out. When I turn either of them it does not change the vacuum. I'm turning it about a quarter turn at a time. I'm not sure if this is too much or not. I don't have much experience tuning a carburetor. I'm also not sure how much change I should see in the vacuum reading.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

On the choke mechanism, check and make sure that the high speed idle screw on that side is completly off of the stops when the choke is warm and open. It can effect the main idle screw if it touches its own stop.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

I thought if the throttle mechanism was touching the bottom of the idle screw that I was fine. It is very difficult to see the screw on the choke side due to the choke and vacuum secondary parts. It is a little late to start it up now (kids are in bed) but I'll see if I can check this tomorrow night.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

Yes, the throttle set screw will touch the linkage. It must to operate properly. You just want to be sure the choke side is not set tom high and bother with the main idle.

It really sounds like you are pretty close to having it dialed in.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

Has the electric choke turned off when you are adjusting the idle mixture screws? All it takes is a bump of the throttle cable and it will turn off.

Do you have a vacuum gauge and what vacuum readings are you getting at idle? The vac gauge is your friend when diagnosing problems. My Street Avenger 670 will kill my motor if I screw the mixture screws in all the way. What size motor do you have?
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

I'm don't have much experience with carburetors so bear with me while I explain the results.

I let the engine warm up so the choke would turn off. The car idles at about 700 RPM without the choke screw touching anything. I can turn the curb idle screw out until the car idles at about 300-400 RPM before the choke screw touches anything.

400 RPM is really slow but I thought I would try to set the idle mixture screws at this RPM (what could it hurt at this point). The needle on the vacuum gauge bounces a between 15 and 16 inches. Changes to the idle mixture screws do not seem to make much difference. I think this is mostly because you can tell much from the bouncing needle.

I raised the RPM to 600-700, confirmed the screws were 1.5 turns out and then tried setting the idle mixture. At this RPM, the vacuum was about 17. I'm not sure how much to adjust one side before moving to the other. I would raise one side by half turn to see what would happen. It really did not seem to change anything. I increased the other side (turning out) and still nothing. If I go out a little over a turn, the vacuum seems to drop very slightly. However, it seems I can turn it a full turn either way before anything significant seems to happen.

It is raining so I have not drive the car. It is not suppose to rain tomorrow so I could do some driving testing if anyone thinks it would help.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

Sounds like you are doing ok. You may not get a large change in the vac. gauge if all is in close range. I would leave them set at 1.5 turns out, idle at 700 or so and see how it drives. I would not adjust the mixture screws more than 1/4 turn at a time and do both sides and then check the vac.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

I agree! If you have a steady vacuum needle, there should be no vac leaks and it sounds like you have it tuned correctly for the idle circuit. If you have stumbles you'll have to start tuning the secondary circuit
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

Something is not right.

Everything seemed fine this morning when I started up the car. I drove it around the block and did not feel any hesitation. This could be because it is still a little wet and I would lose traction easily so the motor was not under much of a load. I accelerated in second gear starting at 1,000 RPM to about 3,500 or 4,000.

After driving about half a mile, I could hear what sounded like popping out of the exhaust. I returned home and parked in my garage. The sound is not as much of a pop but just a sound like you were lightly thumping a paper bag. It was somewhat consistent and happened every couploe of seconds. I was not sure of the cause and needed to get to work so I turned the car off.

I returned home at lunch today and started the car. This time, the right exhaust pops rather loudly every 10-15 seconds. I'm not sure if it sounds different because it is cold now but I just turned it off before letting it warm up.

I have dual exhaust without a crossover pipe. As a result, it is clear this is coming from the driver side of the motor. While working on the carburetor, I noticed that side of the exhaust had some black in the condensation blown out the tailpipe. Not sure if it is related but figure it is worth mentioning.

Any idea what would cause this pop out of the exhaust?
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Idle Mixture & Exhaust Pop

Sounds like you need to see what main jets are in the carb and start the process of re-jetting and driving to see about smoothing it out. Also, check for a miss fire in the dist and plugs.

Have no fear.....between us all, we will get you thru this.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Setting Idle Mixture

"67TXStang" said:
I returned home at lunch today and started the car. This time, the right exhaust pops rather loudly every 10-15 seconds. I'm not sure if it sounds different because it is cold now but I just turned it off before letting it warm up.

I have dual exhaust without a crossover pipe. As a result, it is clear this is coming from the driver side of the motor. While working on the carburetor, I noticed that side of the exhaust had some black in the condensation blown out the tailpipe. Not sure if it is related but figure it is worth mentioning.

Any idea what would cause this pop out of the exhaust?
+1 to checking for a misfire.

I also have dual exhaust with no crossover pipe. I have had the same popping sounds and soot in one tailpipe (coincidentally also the driver's side) which I traced to a combination of fouled plugs and a loose spark plug wire on one of the driver's side.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Idle Mixture & Exhaust Pop

Thanks for sticking with me and helping me get this fixed. I've tried to fix it a few times now but have not had much luck.

I'll search the internet also but how does one check for a misfire?

I can pull the plugs and check them to see if they are fouled. I removed them a week ago and a few were covered in soot (see pictures above). I cleaned them with a brass brush and then put them back in. If they are already covered again, I suppose it is a problem with the idle mixture or with the jets.

Keep in mind, I've used this carburetor for a few months now. The only thing I've done recently is change the intake gasket and idle mixture. I drove it before and the only real problem was the hesitation.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Idle Mixture & Exhaust Pop

You can check for misfires a few different ways. One is to get a spark plug wire test light. Holding the probe on the wire will cause the light in the tester to light each time the spark goes through the ignition wires. This will at least let you know that all wires are firing. The plugs will tell the true story. One will soot up quicker than others if it is misfiring. Are we to assume this has a fairly stock cam in it?

Also, inspect all plug wires for chafing. I like to use a little dialectric grease (can be found at local parts store) on the contacts of the plug wires, but isn't necessary.

You can also check each plug wire with the timing light if you have one of those and not a spark plug wire tester.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Idle Mixture & Exhaust Pop

I was out of town until late last night and could not work on the Mustang. Last night, I replaced all the plugs on the driver side with ones I removed a year ago. The ones I removed were rather black but I did not think they were bad enough to cause a problem. However, I started the car and the pop noise is gone.

I drove around the block to check for the pop noise. It is gone. I don't know if the hesitation is gone as it will not stop raining. The ground is wet and the tires brake loose too easy.

I'm concerned I'll foul the plugs again. I checked one when the engine cooled and it was a little darker than when I put it in. It is a nice, light tan color but I did not really drive very long.
 
Re: Carburetor Tuning Help - Idle Mixture & Exhaust Pop

Were any particular plugs blacker than the rest? The popping sound was likely a missfire from the plug wire not on securely, my guess anyways. One on that passenger side should have been a little blacker.

You may have to do some carb tuning to get rid of that hesitation (jets/metering rods)
 
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