• Hello there guest and Welcome to The #1 Classic Mustang forum!
    To gain full access you must Register. Registration is free and it takes only a few moments to complete.
    Already a member? Login here then!

Freshly Rebuilt Roller 302, pics!

Dave- that reminds me. As im rotating the engine and i begin to feel the pressure pushing my thumb out i noticed that pressure continues to push my thumb out for about another 40 degress of rotation with the breaker bar. Should i set the housing/cap #1 to the rotor at the very first instant i feel pressure or at the very last instant i feel pressure. i feel if im still feeling pressure the piston is still on its way up therefore i should set the #1 to where the rotor is when i stop feeling pressure. sorry if that doesnt make sense haha
 
Try this....

Take a 6-8" long screwdriver and carefully slide it into the spark plug hole. Using your breaker bar on the harmonic balancer bolt rotate the engine.... SLOWLY..... and watch the screwdriver slowly rise out of the cylinder. When the screwdriver STOPS moving upward out of the cylinder... you are at TDC.

Now, the only thing you have to determine is are you at TDC of the compression stroke or the evacuation stroke? To check this, look at your harmonic balancer and your timing marks should be close to zero TDC +/- 10 degrees. If the timing marks aren't aligned, you're likely on the evacuation stroke and will need to rotate the piston around one more cycle.
 
OK i started from scratch, pulled the dist. out and began slowly rotating engine. The first time the piston came up the timing marks were nowhere in sight, so i kept rotating, and the next time the piston came up to the top the timing marks were pretty much dead on. i stopped at about 9 degrees and got the dist to go down in the proper place. i rotated the engine around again to make sure the rotor was going to be in the place i wanted my #1 wire to be, and it was, so i tightened the housing down, put the cap on and wired the 351W firing order in the CCW direction on the dist.

Something is bothering me though, as i rotate the engine by hand, it feels very smooth until this one spot you can hear and feel a noise as if some part is catching and grinding on something, metal on metal. i have no idea what it is but it just doesnt sound right. i remember being able to hear it as i was cranking the engine over yesterday too. you only feel it for about 20 degrees of rotation in the same spot every time, any ideas of what that could be?
 
Being that you chose to use the word "grinding" in your description doesn't sound good. There is nothing normal that I can imagine that would be described this way. This was present all along? Is it possible this could be coming from the bell housing area? I can think of a couple possible issues back there that might offer an explanation.
 
could be coming from the bell housing area?
Click to expand...


9 times out of 10 the bellhousing area is the culprit.... anything from the Starters snout to the Flywheel, etc., etc.


Jon,

What's the entire history on this evolution? Was this just a cam swap? A head swap? A newly installed rebuilt engine? Knowing everything will help us troubleshoot with you.
 
Yes it is anewly installed complete rebuild of the stock 289 that was in my 68. Since it was a 302 block we opted to rebuild it as a 302 and converted to a hydraulic roller cam, roller lifters, roller rockers ect ect. since the tranny drained for about a week straight after the engine was pulled i imagine the noise im hearing could be the product of the tranny fluid not having a chance to work its way into the tranny/converter yet. i was only able to add about 3-4 quarts before the stick read full, but of course i know as the fluid works its way into the converter and other parts of the tranny i would have to add more fluid. i read somewhere that a bone dry automatic will hold somewhere in the vicinity of 8 quarts? and it was indeed bone dry, i had the pan off for about a week and it dripped a TON of fluid on my pan. the flexplate was put on with blue loctite to seal/lock the bolts in place.
 
Remove the bellhousings inspection plate (if it's installed) and inspect the flywheel. It's VERY easy to NOT install the flywheel to the torque converter correctly as the TqConv drain plug has to be aligned with a hole in the flywheel. Rotate the flywheel around a few times and inspect it carefully for any evidence of mis-installation.
 
Well it seems you guys were right about the bellhousing area being the problem, i took off the inspection plate and there was a good amount of metal shavings in the bottom of the housing. i was under the impression that the flexplate could only go onto the converter one way, i assumed if the 4 bolts lined up then it was good to go, apparently not. its strange because it looks to be installed correctly...

just to be sure, as the flexplate rotates around the external weight should be facing the front of the car correct? or is it even possible to put the plate on backwards?
 
You need to see what the flex plate is hitting on. Yes weights to the front. Can you see the drain plugs for the torque converter? If they are open to put a wrench on, the flex plate is most likely installed ok. Slowly rotate the engine and watch for the scape to happen and see what it is.
 
As i rotate the engine i see only 1 drain plug poking through a hole, yet i see multiple drain plug holes. i have no idea whether or not the converter has more than one drain plug, BUT at the other large holes where a drain plug couple poke through, the plate is sitting flush with the converter. i dont see how i can tell where its scraping with the block plate in the way, but it is definitely in the same spot each rotation
 
I believe there is one or two drain plugs but if one is proper, the other should be too. Being flat to the converter is a good sign.

It is hard to see. I had an issue on my last car and at just the right spot with a small flashlight, I could see mine dragging on the block plate based on the block plate being bent in the area of the starter hole. I was able to pry it back into shape without removing anything but the starter. If you cannot get it sorted out thru the inspection plate opening, it will be time to slide the tranny back.
 
First i am going to remove the starter, which will be a joy with the headers on, but ive done it before. gonna see if it still grinds with the starter out. the position at which is grinds is when the weight it at the starter...yet no signs of wear on the weight. we'll see.
 
When you bolted the trans up to the back of the engine did it mate up well or did you have to tighten some of the bellhousing bolts to "pull" it up against the block? I'm wondering if you had the torque converter fully seated. It should have had a few definite steps back toward the trans as you installed it.
 
When i pulled the engine, i didnt touch the converter at all. When i put the engine back in, i again, didnt touch the converter. i left it on the trans the whole time. could it have pulled itself out a little when i pulled the engine?
 
Back to my initial question though, did you have to use the bellhousing bolts to pull the trans up to the block. If you did, that would be an indication the converter was not fully installed. I know this will cause internal trans damage (pump) but I'm wondering if it would also cause mis-engagement of the shaft splines which could be the metal shavings you found. Are the metal bits steel or aluminum? Aluminum would be from the bellhousing which in this case would be somewhat good news.
 
Ahh, it seems ive found the culprit. i pulled the starter and found a load of metal shavings inside the starter, and whats worse it there is a bearing or something of that nature that is loose and wobbling around. i am pointing to it with the red arrow.

and whats more i rotated the engine around twice and no scraping! :vic

001-2.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So..... with your starter removed.... if you put your wrench back on the harmonic balancer bolt and rotate the engine.... is the grinding noise gone away?
 
Make sure when you mount it you get proper alignment of the gear with teeth on the flexplate. That's more than likely what got you in trouble the first go 'round.

Glad to see things worked out in the best possible way for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top