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Interesting thread I found on TKO's

6000 RPM shifts with no problems.

Sons car has a 3.90 geared rearend and 1st gear is damn near useless. I wouldn't go with a 4.11 if it's going to see 90% street driving. If anything, I'd go with a numerically lower gear ratio such as a 3.50 or at the lowest end a 3.25.

The T-56 should require extensive tunnel modifications in order to maintain acceptable driveline angles, yet Darreld installed one in his '68 only by using RM adjustable (lowered) engine mounts.

What's the story on him?
Click to expand...

He is a salesman for the aforementioned company. He googles the company name and then joins internet forums to tout/defend his companies product. He's more argumentative than I am.... if that's possible. I'd refrain from mentioning his companies name or else he will show up here.

Three years ago we purchased the TKO swap kit from DarkHorse and it was approx. $2800. It included everything from the engine block plate to the shifter ball and everything in between. The only additional items we had to procure were the driveshaft (Inland Empire), a plug for the mechanical speedometer port on the trans (Steeda) and a pigtail to connect the electric speedometer (local Ford dealer). The kit included the at that time available JMC hydraulic clutch kit.
 
The last thing I want to have to deal with is missed shifts, and the cons outweigh the pros in my survey of internet stories on Tremecs. There's a second issue I've heard about where they will essentially lock up and you have to pull the top cover off and mess with the shift forks to get them back in place (necessitating you pulling the tranny, or opening up the trans tunnel). Here's a very interesting article on the subject (the most interesting part coming at the end :rofl )

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41439

I've almost come full circle on this. My buddy who runs in vintage racing is required to run a toploader 4-speed and he says his is bulletproof. His isn't just any tranny though, it's built by David Kee in San Antonio, and is literally a brand new tranny, built to take anything you can throw at it. Kee even does his own castings of the cases. Price wise, they're in the $2000 range, which is in the neighborhood of a TKO-600.

http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/toploaderpricelist.htm

The reason I'm considering going this way is since they were original equipment, they're a direct fit which eliminates alot of the conversion work and costs for a Tremec which include:
- modifiying the tranny tunnel or milling the trans
- special cross member
- shortened driveshaft
- speedometer adapter
- etc

What you give up is the wider range, but this may not be that big of a deal to me.
My car is used mainly for in-town cruises and track days.
If I match my rear gear for that, it may not fair well on the highway.
My solution to that could be to just keep a spare pumpkin for my 9" with highway gears in it and swap it for the rare highway trip.
Not the best solution, for sure, but something I'm thinking about.
 
I've always kinda kept that idea on the backburner. One of the guys on mustangforums has a 383 stroker with a David Kees toploader behind it and loves it.

Still, I want to be able to drive my car on the freeway regularly:(
 
Also interesting to note that the dynacorn shells have speaker holes in the kick panels. I had heard they had that rib that runs over the tunnel connecting the seat pans.

gallery
 
I'm corresponding with Tony Sarvis at Astroperformance and here's some of what he has to say:

"The A-5 Package (Part#NA5-6770-HSU) is a great option. The A-5 Transmission
will hold up to 550 Torque @ Flywheel and will shift just like any Standard
1985-95 Ford Mustang 5.0L T-5 Transmission. The A-5 may make a bit more
noise due to the Helix Angle Pitch of the Teeth, but ultimately it is one of
the only 5 Speeds that fits the Tunnel and requires minimal modification. A
Tremec TKO-600 is a bit stronger (600 Ft. Lbs. of Torque Capable), but you
usually have to modify the Tunnel to fit the larger girth where the
transmission attaches to bellhousing. Plus, the TKO-500/600 have issues
shifting above 5,200 RPM from the factory. We have an upgrade referred to
as a Sure Shift Upgrade that helps get them to shift closer to 6,000 RPM.
The Upgrade & TKO Price alone are $2,550 before any of the other parts
needed to make the swap.

I sell several A-5 Packages for 65-73 Ford Mustang 3 or 4 speed Vehicles
looking to convert to Overdrive. I think the shifting characteristics and
lightweight design of the T-5 makes it the better option. All you have to
remember is that the package on the site doesn't include the Upgraded 26
Spline Clutch needed."
 
Joining the party late, but I'll add my 2 cents.

I, like Dave, bought my TKO-600 from DHP. I also bought the McCleod dual friction kevlar clutch, the McCleod pressure plate, and McCleod scatter shield from them.

The kit included every single bolt I needed to install the tranny, and was shipped to my door.

The TKO-600 is in my '69, behind a healthy 408, with a 3.89 9", 4 pinion, 31 spline traction-lok. Right after I dropped the engine in, it dynoed at 354 RWHP, and 416 ft. lbs. of torque.

I don't road race the car, but have taken it to the drag strip 3 times, with over 24 passes now. My best time, so far is 13.061 at 113.061 mph (no, that's not a type, the ET and speed matched to the hundredths LOL) on street tires. My torque is all down very low (I have 300 ft. lbs. at the wheels by 1500 RPM's and the car idles at 900 :nice). Because of that, my torque is dropping off at about 5500 (that's where it goes back below 300 ft. lbs.), so that's about where I shift ... 5500 RPM's. Sometimes I'm shifting sooner, sometimes later ... hey, I'm no professional!

I have never missed a shift in any gear. I've never had a problem with this transmission ever, and as anyone that's ever seen me drive it can tell you, I drive it hard, pretty much all the time.

Oh, I didn't make a single modification to the car to install this transmission in my '69, and I know of someone that's installed one in a '65 without modifying the car.

I can't say if I would start having problems, shifting at 6200+ RPM's, but I'll probably never find out, given the low end torque of my engine. Shifting at 6000 and below, though, doesn't seem to be an issue at all. I've had the tranny in the car now for going on 4 years.

BTW, on the subject of gears ... I used to have a 3.50 rear and didn't care for it. 1-4 were fine, but the car didn't have any real power in 5th, and if I wanted to accelerate hard, I had to downshift. The 3.89 gears are spot on. I can just hit the accelerator in 5th and have all the power I want. I'm currently turning 2500 RPM's at 75 mph with the 3.89 gears.
 
Thanks for the info John.

Here's some additional info from Astro:

"Quicktime Bellhousings are an excellent option for those that are doing Auto-Manual Conversions. Especially if the car will be making over 450HP. I feel that anything over 450HP needs extra protection around the bellhousing area in case of a Clutch / Flywheel Explosion. Quicktime makes several Bellhousings, both SFI & Non-SFI Approved. For the 289/302/351W they offer a Non SFI Bellhousing for $449.00, and SFI Approved Bellhousing for $479.00. Both will allow use of a Mechanical Linkage form a 1965-73 Ford Mustang, Aftermarket Cable Setup, or a Hydraulic Setup. A adapter plate is not needed when going with a Quicktime Bellhousing. We don’t offer a Clutch Pedal Assembly for a 1965-73 Ford Mustang, most have to be pulled out of a Wrecking Yard. We offer a Cable Conversion Kit for customers that find a Pedal Assembly for a 65-73 Mustang, or a Hydraulic Master/Slave Cylinder Setup. The Cable Kit Option is $249.00, whereas a Hydraulic Option is closer to $300. Cable Option will allow you to adjust the Clutch at the Clutch Fork. The Hydraulic isn’t adjustable. Hydraulic Option we offer positions the Slave Cylinder on the outside of the bellhousing. In the past we have used internal slip on style hydraulic bearings, but have had issues with them leaking. Once they leak you stand a chance of ruining the clutch.

Now, given you have a 28 Oz. Balance / 157T Flywheel, we could offer a Billet Steel Flywheel with the same specs that would allow use of a 10.5� Diaphragm Style Clutch. Our Billet Flywheels are $169.00. We offer Ram & Mcleod Clutch Kits. We offer a Dual Friction 550HP (Flywheel) Clutch for $319.95 & a 650HP (Flywheel) for $359.95. All of the Clutches include Throwout Bearing, Pressure Plate, and Clutch Disc. The Throwout Bearing will work with the T-5 Transmission Built, but must be used with a 79-93 Fox Body Clutch Fork. We have the Clutch Fork it works with for $24.95. But, you would have to run either the Quicktime or Stock 83-93 Mustang 5.0L T-5 Bellhousing for the Fork to work.

Other things to consider when doing the conversion are the Flywheel to Crankshaft Bolts. We have for $16.95 for all 6 bolts. Also, a clutch Fastener Kit to attach the Diaphragm 10.5� Clutch Kit up is $14.95. The A-5 Transmission comes with a Stock Style Shifter. Some people like Aftermarket Short Throw Shifters which we also stock. These style shifters have Adjustable Bolts Stops and are spring loaded to help find 3rd Gear under load. The Aftermarket Shifts run in the area of $169.95."
 
Even the newer TKO transmissions seem to have the shifting problems from what I've read. It may not be a common problem on all of them but is one that has sparked many threads. One guy even has a web page about his shifting problem and how he fixed it. http://www.w8ji.com/tko_600_shifting_problems.htm

I'm picking up a Cobra T56 this weekend for $900. I can't wait for that conversion. The gear ratios are pretty similar to the TKO600 but has two overdrive gears that are kind of a combination of the road race version of the TKO600 and the regular TKO600.

For the TKO600: 2.87, 1.89, 1.28, 1.00, 0.64
For the TKO600RR: 2.87, 1.89, 1.28, 1.00, 0.82
For the T56 Cobra: 2.97, 2.07, 1.43, 1.00, 0.80, 0.62,

The downside of the T56 is its weight, but I'm coming from a cast iron FMX so I'm shedding a few pounds from this conversion :rofl The FMX weighs roughly 195lb and the T56 is around 125lb.
 
Are you going with somebody's kit for the installation of the T56?
What year are you putting it in, and are you going to have to do tunnel mods?
 
No kit being used. I'll be using the McLeod steel bell and will likely fab my own crossmember up. D&D Trans has a crossmember that I may try out but am not sure yet. It will be going into a 70 mach. No tunnel mods needed for our cars according to the few that have done the conversion.

I'll have to get a electric to mechanical speedometer converter box since these OEM trans only come with electronic speedometers.
 
"buening" said:
Even the newer TKO transmissions seem to have the shifting problems from what I've read. It may not be a common problem on all of them but is one that has sparked many threads. One guy even has a web page about his shifting problem and how he fixed it. http://www.w8ji.com/tko_600_shifting_problems.htm
Click to expand...

That's exactly the trouble I've been reading about, and apparently Libertys Gears has the fix for it.
I'm back seriously considering a TKO again...thanks!
 
There is always a fix, just depends on how many Benjamins you have to spare ;) I'd check with Liberty Gears before buying a TKO, just to see what they have to say!
 
"buening" said:
I'll have to get a electric to mechanical speedometer converter box since these OEM trans only come with electronic speedometers.
Click to expand...

My TKO-600 has the provision for either mechanical or electrical speedometer. I am currently using the mechanical, but plan to switch to electrical when I swap out the gauges.
 
switch to electrical when I swap out the gauges
Click to expand...

John,

You can stop into your local Ford parts counter and buy the electrical connector for the passenger side electrical speedo port on your TKO600. As I remember it's a 2 or 3 wire connector that's sold over the counter as a pigtail and cost ~$10.

Additionally, you'll then need to plug the old mechanical speedo port on the drivers side. These plugs are available through the aftermarket and I bought it from Steeda.


I don't believe the T-56 has any built-in provision for a mech. speedometer, thus the requirement for a converter.
 
"daveSanborn" said:
I don't believe the T-56 has any built-in provision for a mech. speedometer, thus the requirement for a converter.
Click to expand...

Nope, sure don't. D&D Performance machines the Viper tailshaft and appears to epoxy a mechanical speedometer bung from a T5 on there, at least it appears that way from pictures. Theres a few more things internally that is done as well. They want $850 for this little conversion. I think I'll settle with the converter box :pbj
 
"johnpro" said:
I am currently using the mechanical, but plan to switch to electrical when I swap out the gauges.
Click to expand...

Are you using the stock gauge housing? I've considered doing this but wondered about the hassle of the underdash plug/printed circuit mess.
 
I'm kinda worrying about using the T5z behind the cleveland in Shag and wonder if I should go with a TKO600. We all know that I'm way too old to ever think of rodding the car to the point that I might blow the tranny, but am I being niave? I"m starting out with 3.55 gears in back.

Just don't know what do to.
 
I already said you were brave to put that tranny behind a cleve. I don't think it'll last.

And if it does, you could always let me drive it for a day;)
 
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