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My header install. Part 1 of the FPA nightmare!

WOW, I just read all this and was surprised at first of Stan's response. I too have been in a service roll for over 18 years and know you cannot take the low road no matter what the customer does. I just recently bought headers from FPA and had a great expeiance with Stan. I may not have bought them if I read this before Mike was able to talk with him again. I have a 429 in my 67 with early Crites motor mounts and was using Tubular Automotive long tube headers which had no ground clearance. When I spoke with Stan he knew exactlt which motor mounts I was talking about and built me some headers to fit my application and give me more ground clearance. He said they were $550 uncoated and $850 coated. I went with the polished coating. I should have pulled the motor or at least the heads to get them in but after a day and a half they were in and I'm really happy with them. A bit pricey but I have not found any other options than to have these made and he did a nice job. They even had my name stamped in the flange at the head on both headers. At one point he even called me to confirm some things we discussed on the phone. I'm glad he calmed down for you Mike and sorry to hear of your trouble, this hobby can be frustrating.
 
Sounds like you had a great experience with Stan. All that counts is your headers fit and you are happy. They are spendy but the quality is there I must admit. I had no problem with the craftsmanship or the quality by any means. I sent him a picture tonight of my slave cylinder before the engine went in. The duct tape is there because I was grinding and didn't want to get any metal dust in the bellhousing.
I mentioned that I would like to purchase another header. I'll see what he says.

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I sent him a picture tonight of my slave cylinder before the engine went in.
Click to expand...

Ah, this may explain why the DS header wasn't fitting.

In your original post, you stated....

The headers were made without regard to my CNC slave cylinder. I told Stan that I had a hydraulic clutch with the CNC slave....
Click to expand...

From this statement, I, along with Stan and probably everyone else who read this statement assumed you had a traditional "pusher" slave cylinder that would be mounted aft of the clutch fork. Although a forward mounted "puller" slave works just fine with your 4 speed, it's not the more common "pusher" slave that's used with T-5, TKO, T56 swaps.

In your initial dealings with Stan, did you explicitly state that you had a 4spd with a "puller" slave mounted forward of the bellhousing?

This would make a BIG difference when designing the clearances for the header.
 
I'm not too solid on hydraulic clutch stuff...but it doesn't look to me like that slave is going to be pulling on anything. The clutch fork needs to be pushed backwards to actuate.
 
The clutch fork needs to be pushed backwards to actuate.
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Think about that statement and then explain to me how pushing rearward on the clutch fork will disengage the clutch disc from the pressure plate.
 
Because the pivot on the clutch fork is on the d-side of the bellhousing, not the p-side (as I imagine a factory T5 bellhousing would be). The outside of the fork pushes back, the inside pushes forward, actuating the clutch. You can't have a hydraulic cylinder system that pulls on anything, as hydraulic cylinders work on pressure, not vacuum.
 
Tad is correct. The top loader has the ball on the DS so the clutch fork must move toward the rear to actuate the clutch. The T5 5 speed is opposite.

I sent Stan that same pic. Here is what he said,

"Oh God, there's the problem! I've never even seen a slave mounted like that. No wonder you wanted to kill me !"

With that in mind, I will take partial blame. Even though I assumed he was asking the right questions, I should have been more clear and maybe even sent him the pic. He did say that he would make me a half set when I am ready. All in all I am satisfied that I made contact, as Dave recommended, and have a different outlook on Stan.
 
That's great to hear, Mike. Although I don't know why he didn't think of that. A hydraulic clutch conversion on a bellhousing originally designed for a mechanical linkage has to look exactly like that.
 
Wow, a picture is worth a 1000 words. That's not at all what I envisioned when you described it but now that I see you did describe it correctly.
I am very happy with my headers, the others I've had on there since about 92 were well made but for a Drag car, not a street car. My new ones made the car sound better, no clearance issues and look a lot better too.
I hope Stan cuts you a deal on one header but at least you guys are talking again.
 
"Starfury" said:
You can't have a hydraulic cylinder system that pulls on anything, as hydraulic cylinders work on pressure, not vacuum.
Click to expand...

Not saying this is applicable to any of this clutch discussion but hydraulic cylinders can push or pull based on which side of the piston the pressure is applied. Many pieces of farm equipment have used cylinders that work either direction under pressure or both directions under pressure.
 
Under pressure, yes, but you generally don't run a hydraulic system under vacuum. It just doesn't usually work properly. It may work for very small loads, but you generally need pressure to make them operate. Trying to pull on a hydraulic piston with a lot of resistance is more likely to collapse the hoses than move the piston.
 
The outside of the fork pushes back, the inside pushes forward, actuating the clutch.
Click to expand...

Thanks for keeping me straight Tad. All my mind could picture were the last two pivot balls on a TKO and T5 that I installed. I completely forgot that the old 4 spd. clutch forks were designed as "levers".

But I did nail the problem. Just like I said, Stan envisioned the slave cylinder aft of the bell, not along side it. If he was told from the beginning that the headers needed to fit around a slave cylinder mounted to a toploader bell housing, he's more to blame than he's letting on. No-one here is in the "header construction" business, he is. He should know that a toploader will have the slave cylinder mounted just as Mike pictured and construct/deliver the header accordingly.
 
You nailed it Dave. Several of the questions were, what type of transmission, what bellhousing, hydraulic or stock clutch, what engine, rack and pinion, motor mounts, heads,........
 
Several of the questions were, what type of transmission, what bellhousing, hydraulic or stock clutch....
Click to expand...

If he had this info up front, I'd hold him accountable. I know you guys just kissed and made up, but c'mon man, this is his business. If us backyard mechanics know that a toploader slave cylinder is forward mounted (alongside the bell), shouldn't he? If it were me, I'd politely ask him to make this right and deliver a new DS header. No rush, just next time it slows down a little, whip one out that'll fit... since you jumped the gun and beat the crap out of his original header, maybe you can meet him halfway by agreeing to eat the cost of the ceramic coat and shipping.

Please feel free to cut and paste my above comment in any future correspondance with Stan.
 
I agree that yes, he is at fault (and I always have), but Stan isn't responsible for the bashed up header. If it was undamaged, I'm sure he'd simply ship out a correct header and take the incorrect one back. Now...I think meeting somewhere in between would be the best you can hope for.
 
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