Need more caster, what are my options?

[blackford]

Back in '04 when I finished my car and aligned it, I reached a point on the drivers side where I could not get any more caster using shims without loosing neg camber. If I shimmed the UCA unevenly to gain caster, I would loose neg camber. Reason for this was that I ended up with no shims on the back side of the UCA and shims on the front side after aligning the car. I could not move the back side inward any more, and putting shims on the front side would move camber towards pos camber.

I am going by memory so if I have this backwards, please excuse.

I have adjustable strut rods and can pull the LCA towards the front, but I have taken this as far as I wish without pulling it too much causing binding of the bushing.

Anyhow, my camber is currently -0.5 and caster is about +1.5 to +2.0...I need more caster. The car drives fine this way, but I can see that it does not have enough caster when I turn the wheels until it stops and look at the tilt of the wheels from the front of the car.

I was going to remove the springs and UCAs and offset the UCA shaft by 1 turn and then reassemble. Figured i'd box the UCAs and LCAs while i'm at it.

Have you got any other suggestions to increase caster?

 

[TB350]

I'm sure he will see this and chime in, but talk to Opentracker. John can set you up with spherical bearinged lowers you can adjust without the bind and also a caster kit so you adjust camber from the lca mount, independant of your caster adjustments. kip

 

[KBMWRS]

So Tracy will we see you at Knotts?

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't done this, but I remember John mentioning to rotate the upper arm shaft forward which will move the arm back. IIRC, you would then need to weld it in place...not sure. Send John (opentracker) and email.

 

[Midlife]

I haven't done this, but I remember John mentioning to rotate the upper arm shaft forward which will move the arm back. IIRC, you would then need to weld it in place...not sure. Send John (opentracker) and email.

Exactly right. Take out the bolts that fasten the UCA through the shock tower and rotate the shaft so that the arm moves backwards. This is very effective, both in price and design.

 

[blackford]

I haven't done this, but I remember John mentioning to rotate the upper arm shaft forward which will move the arm back. IIRC, you would then need to weld it in place...not sure. Send John (opentracker) and email.

You mean weld the caps into place? I would use the little metal tabs welded into place to prevent the caps from turning. Can't tack weld the caps as they are cast and don't weld very well with standard wire...I tried that once ...was a bad idea

 

[blackford]

So Tracy will we see you at Knotts?

I'm unsure. I may be going on vacation at that time because my son is on Easter break.

If I do, I won't take the car apart to fix caster until after the show and i'm drivin it with open exhaust like I have been for the last couple of months. I haven't been pulled over yet and I pass the police station near my house all the time. Sounds too good to cork it! :yah

 

[Opentracker]

Could be that the arms on your car don't have the shafts centered. If one is offset the wrong way, alignment is dificult.

Exactly right. Take out the bolts that fasten the UCA through the shock tower and rotate the shaft so that the arm moves backwards. This is very effective, both in price and design.

That's how to do it. We weld a little tab in place to keep the bushing ( big nut ) from coming loose.

Before that, I snug them down and then back them off one flat ( 1/6 of a turn ) to let grease get where it needs to be and to stop some of the bind.


With our roller kit you can do a lot more. I offset these arms for a pro drag team a few years ago that wanted 8deg. of caster. They got it with these arms.

 

[Anonymous]

Holy crap, my memory worked for a change!

 

[Shaun]

You could also use John's LCA camber kit on the LCA to gain more negative camber.

 

[Opentracker]

You could also use John's LCA camber kit on the LCA to gain more negative camber.

Good point Shaun, not trying to sell parts here but you bring up a good suggestion and that brings up another train of thought.



I find it helpfull to move the upper ball joint backward to add caster as well as pulling the lower one forward. If you only pull the lower one forward, you also move the outer tie rod end forward ( changes steering geometry ) and you also move the tire closer to the front fender ( moving the wheel forward in the wheel well = tire rub ).
Moving the upper ball joint backward does little to change the position of the outer tie rod or tire position in the wheel well because the spindle is mounted very low ( just above the lower ball joint ) on the steering knuckle. On some cars ( track cars ) I like to move the upper ball joint back as much as I can before the alignment is done to add as much static caster as possible.

Moving the upper ball joint backwards a lot can cause shock alignment issues since the lower mount is moving. There are different ways to fix that depending on what kind of shock your using.

Offsetting the shaft in the OEM type arm does come with some issues. If you go over one turn, and sometimes even that, you will have clearance issues with the rear grease fitting.
A little work with a BFH works great to make more room.

 

[blackford]

Good point Shaun, not trying to sell parts here but you bring up a good suggestion and that brings up another train of thought.



I find it helpfull to move the upper ball joint backward to add caster as well as pulling the lower one forward. If you only pull the lower one forward, you also move the outer tie rod end forward ( changes steering geometry ) and you also move the tire closer to the front fender ( moving the wheel forward in the wheel well = tire rub ).
Moving the upper ball joint backward does little to change the position of the outer tie rod or tire position in the wheel well because the spindle is mounted very low ( just above the lower ball joint ) on the steering knuckle. On some cars ( track cars ) I like to move the upper ball joint back as much as I can before the alignment is done to add as much static caster as possible.

Moving the upper ball joint backwards a lot can cause shock alignment issues since the lower mount is moving. There are different ways to fix that depending on what kind of shock your using.

Offsetting the shaft in the OEM type arm does come with some issues. If you go over one turn, and sometimes even that, you will have clearance issues with the rear grease fitting.
A little work with a BFH works great to make more room.

How are you moving the ball joints? The LCA camber kit would be a very good idea while I have things apart. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and go full roller if I can afford it. I have a roller bearing for my idler arm too that I should install.

One thing that offsetting the UCAs will help on my car will be to center the wheels better in the wheel well. They have always been a bit forward in the well and the 225s on my car rub when I am turning in parking lots. The lips were trimmed down to about 1/4" wide and the tires still rub sometimes.

Can't I just cut a hole in the shock tower to access the grease fitting? It won't make the shock tower too weak will it?

 

[Anonymous]

I think John means moving the upper arm back which moves the ball joint back as well.

 

[Opentracker]

I think John means moving the upper arm back which moves the ball joint back as well.

Yep - sorry if I wasn't clear. You move the arm and the ball joint goes with it.


Most of us don't like cutting holes in the shock tower to access the grease fitting but it can and has been done. I have seen cracks form from that hole so I would have to say that it isn't a good idea, unless you weld a ring around the hold to add some meat to the shock tower.

The roller upper control arms are overkill for a street car in my opinion. Unless the budget is huge, I would put the money toward something else that would bring more to the car.