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Parent child
- Thread starter FordDude
- Start date
Yes mom can be stubborn. Last week I came out to pick her up from her place on Thursday. I got a nope I am not going home with you. So I left her in her own house overnight. My daughter was there the next morning and she was ready to go an hour or so after she got there. Mom wanted to sleep in her own bed.
All of these years I have listened to my mom, so now it is my turn to be the parent and it is not an easy task.
fd
All of these years I have listened to my mom, so now it is my turn to be the parent and it is not an easy task.
fd
On Tuesday mom had a follow up doctors appointment. 5 assisted living places have been visited/toured. 4 were close to me and 1 was in the city of Hemet were mom had her house. We (we being wife daughter and me) chose the one close to us in Riverside. They had papers the doctor needed to fill out and sign and that was done during the visit. After the visit we needed to go for a chest xray, Tuberculosis check for the assised living place. After that we went to moms house to eat lunch that got on the way there. This is where it started getting ugly. On her own she called the place in Hemet to get the cost of a room. She did not explain her condition and was givin the price for independent living, and a 25% reduction in the cost of assisted living when it was necessary to move there. So now we are focused on this reduced price. Mom this is the cost of assisted living, no it is not. I was told it it this price. Then I got the "I am not going home with you today". You cannot stay by yourself. I am not going. She is on her phone trying to call this place, leaving messages to call her back. I was able to decline the call back, but she was adamant that she was going to go there and talk to marketing director. "If you take me there then I will go home with you". We go there and she somehow finds the marketing director. Then the real fun begins. Tish the MD is telling mom that she did not realize her condition and gave her the wrong prices. But mom was not accepting this, because it was not what she wanted to hear. Tish had to repeat herself multiple times, before mom finally gave up and said I just do not understand. We went back to her house, she got her things and we drove her car back to my house. My 07 Mustang staying in her garage. Mom I need the pink slip (what we call the title in California) to your car. I am not ready to sell my car, what if I need to go somewhere? Stubborn parent child. So today I called the assisted living place to have mom evaluated. My RN wife stayed in the room to help with the evaluation. With her dementia diagnosis and the interview she will be placed in the memory care section. She will be going there to live next week, before July. Also today before the visit to moms new home I saw an edler care attonery. The trust that mom and dad did back in 1994 has a durible power of attonery in it, basically naming me. The documents that I need to sell her house and car. This ordeal has been very difficult on my family. I love my mother and she was a very kind loving person. But I cannot live with her and I cannot provide the care that she needs. She has the means to pay for her own care and will be moving into a nice clean environment getting 3 meals a day along with her medication being managed.
So after she moves in it will be visiting her and watching the decline. But during our"discussion" after lunch on Tuesday I told my mom I am NOT angry with you, I am angry with the disease that you have, dementia. It is taking away everything you worked so hard to have. I bit my tounge and did not say that it will also take you away from me too. She does not understand that she is only going to get worse, not better.
Thanks for letting me vent a little. I have a simple request that I ask for when I get home from work every day. Please no drama today.
fd
So after she moves in it will be visiting her and watching the decline. But during our"discussion" after lunch on Tuesday I told my mom I am NOT angry with you, I am angry with the disease that you have, dementia. It is taking away everything you worked so hard to have. I bit my tounge and did not say that it will also take you away from me too. She does not understand that she is only going to get worse, not better.
Thanks for letting me vent a little. I have a simple request that I ask for when I get home from work every day. Please no drama today.
fd
JeffTepper
Well-Known Member
On the topic of stubborn, I suggest that may be lifelong independence trying to make a last stand. With my Mom, it started before dementia really took hold, but stubborn she was. As it turned out her drivers' license expired while she was recuperating from surgery but she hadn't yet arrived at the reality her driving days were over. I convinced her that when she is ready to take her drivers' test i would give her a refresher course to brush up on her driving skills. Fortunately she agreed and when she was ready, I took her, in her car, to the local Community College parking lot on a Sunday morning. Her initial performance was bad enough that even she recognized it. I assured her that she might need more lessons which I was happy to provide when she was ready. To provide a bit of peace of mind, i disabled her car in her garage so if she would try to drive I would be getting a call about her car won't start. Fortunately, that was never a problem. Finally after two more lessons she actually told me that maybe it's time to turn her drivers' license in for an ID card. Whew!!! We kept her car (a Camry) primarily for shuttling her around as needed. Getting her into and out of my 911 was always a contender for "America's Funniest Video".
Next topic was her housing. She lived in a 4 bedroom house by herself and getting her to and from Dr's appointments and grocery shopping as well as the occasional "crisis de jour" was hampered by me living 22 miles away. My sister and I came up with a plan for Mom. It involved finding her an apartment in an independent living facility near me (1 mile away) so that I could better help her when she needed help. The deal included the idea that it was an experiment in which she could pull the plug at any time and I would move her back to her home of 35 years. Facilitating that included securing up her house, not renting it out, and having her gardner come every week to keep everything looking like the house was occupied. The wonderful nextdoor neighbors helped keep an eye out as well. This experiment lasted about 18 months when out of the blue Mom said: "It's time." I aslked: "Time for what?" She replied: "To sell the house, This is my home now". Clearly, she had to wrap her mind around the idea and she eventually did. I took care of selling the house which netted her enough money to do whatever she wanted without ever having to worry about having enough money to live on. Funny how growing up during the depression had such a profound impact on her financial outlook even though she never really had a factual basis to conclude she would run out of money during her lifetime.
Within a couple of years the dementia started to manifest itself. At that point a move into the assisted living section provided a higher level of care where her meds were monitored. Eventually a move into the memory care wing was indicated. By then the parent/child role reversal was complete. After Mom passed, my sister said something that really hit home for me. Essentially, the woman who just passed away isn't the woman who raised us, our Mom has been gone for some time. Grieving her loss started long before her heart stopped beating. Mom's been gone 15 years and I still tear up when i remember becoming the parent in that relationship. I have come to accept that this is a part of modern aging.
While my kids were adults then and witnessed much of this they have been a bit hesitant to discuss their roles as I approach the exit sign. Circle of Lfe and all that stuff................. My point is that this is never easy but with some planning and some patience we all get through it.
Next topic was her housing. She lived in a 4 bedroom house by herself and getting her to and from Dr's appointments and grocery shopping as well as the occasional "crisis de jour" was hampered by me living 22 miles away. My sister and I came up with a plan for Mom. It involved finding her an apartment in an independent living facility near me (1 mile away) so that I could better help her when she needed help. The deal included the idea that it was an experiment in which she could pull the plug at any time and I would move her back to her home of 35 years. Facilitating that included securing up her house, not renting it out, and having her gardner come every week to keep everything looking like the house was occupied. The wonderful nextdoor neighbors helped keep an eye out as well. This experiment lasted about 18 months when out of the blue Mom said: "It's time." I aslked: "Time for what?" She replied: "To sell the house, This is my home now". Clearly, she had to wrap her mind around the idea and she eventually did. I took care of selling the house which netted her enough money to do whatever she wanted without ever having to worry about having enough money to live on. Funny how growing up during the depression had such a profound impact on her financial outlook even though she never really had a factual basis to conclude she would run out of money during her lifetime.
Within a couple of years the dementia started to manifest itself. At that point a move into the assisted living section provided a higher level of care where her meds were monitored. Eventually a move into the memory care wing was indicated. By then the parent/child role reversal was complete. After Mom passed, my sister said something that really hit home for me. Essentially, the woman who just passed away isn't the woman who raised us, our Mom has been gone for some time. Grieving her loss started long before her heart stopped beating. Mom's been gone 15 years and I still tear up when i remember becoming the parent in that relationship. I have come to accept that this is a part of modern aging.
While my kids were adults then and witnessed much of this they have been a bit hesitant to discuss their roles as I approach the exit sign. Circle of Lfe and all that stuff................. My point is that this is never easy but with some planning and some patience we all get through it.
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I've stayed quiet here a while as the topic is striking close to home. My grandmother on my mothers side developed Alzheimer's and dealt with it for the remainder of her life. It was a long and difficult time for all. My mother is now in her very late 70's and starting to show signs. Hard to say if just old age or if more is to come. Either way she is aware of her cognitive decline and is now talking of moving back from AZ (where she has resided alone since my dad passed some 25+ years ago). She lives in a 55+ community and these past few years has seen a friend or two make the decision to leave and move back to be closer to their families. I think she is jumping the gun. Sure she might tell the same story in the course of an hour long phone call or send a birthday card a couple days late but she's functioning well otherwise. I think she is better off there than back in the Midwest, at least right now. She has a circle of friends, routines, etc. Back here she wants to find a place to live alone (which would cost significantly more than here current place) and she would be, well, alone. Out there she has here friends and my oldest son lives just 20 minutes away. These decisions are not easy. For anyone. My hat gets tipped to everyone who is dealing with it.
Anyway, my real reason for chiming in is to ask a difficult and, I hope, not too offensive question. Does anyone fully know and understand the law as it pertains to physician assisted, end of life medical actions? Layman's terms, assisted suicide. I know it is legal in many states but what I am really trying to understand is the conditions under which it is permissible. All I have found seems to indicate it can only be utilized in situations of a diagnosed terminal illness with a life expectancy of 6 months or less. Also, the patient needs to be medically classified as "mentally competent" to make the decision. My mother is terrified she will follow her own mother's course and has clearly stated this type of medical option would be her choice if possible. By my research, it seems persons suffering from a disease like Alzheimer's would not be eligible. I'm wondering if someone prior to or in very early onset could have a legal living will type document drafted electing for such that would make the procedure/process legal.
Anyway, my real reason for chiming in is to ask a difficult and, I hope, not too offensive question. Does anyone fully know and understand the law as it pertains to physician assisted, end of life medical actions? Layman's terms, assisted suicide. I know it is legal in many states but what I am really trying to understand is the conditions under which it is permissible. All I have found seems to indicate it can only be utilized in situations of a diagnosed terminal illness with a life expectancy of 6 months or less. Also, the patient needs to be medically classified as "mentally competent" to make the decision. My mother is terrified she will follow her own mother's course and has clearly stated this type of medical option would be her choice if possible. By my research, it seems persons suffering from a disease like Alzheimer's would not be eligible. I'm wondering if someone prior to or in very early onset could have a legal living will type document drafted electing for such that would make the procedure/process legal.
JeffTepper
Well-Known Member
You are asking for legal advice on a very personal potentially hot button (religious, medical ethics, philosophical) topic. Think Kevorkian. Legal advice from someone in this crowd is worth every penny you pay for it!!! I suggest you contact a competent elder law attorney familiar with end of life issues, policies, and the strategies needed to achieve your goal in the state(s) involved.
So, this evening was a highlight of my life. With covid still out there a test was required before move in. Took mom for the test on Friday and the results were supposed to be back in 48 hours. Came back the next day. Within 72 hours of getting the results they have to be admitted. Went to the home this morning to set up the bed and finish paperwork. The plan was to get the room set up today and bring mom on Wednesday. I went out to mom’s city to see her Doctor, I needed TB test results and the POLST form. Grabbed some more furniture and headed back. They would not yield on the 72-hour time, and yes mom was vaccinated. So we had to move her in today. Got home and wife and daughter left to finish setting up the room. Sat with mom for about 20 minutes. Went and got her purse and said we need to go. Where are we going? On an errand, I cannot leave you here alone. But as we are going to her new home, she realized what direction we were going. If we are going to Raincross turn around and go back home, I am not going there. I am going to get out of the car if we are going to Raincross. We got there and she refused to get out of the car. Understand we were doing all that was possible to convince her to get out on her own. Not happening. They found a wheelchair for us to use. Wife using her nurse training was able to get her out and into the chair. Forward did not work, because we would drag our feet. So backwards we went with mom yelling and cussing along the way. Into the room we went. Not happy that we were in her house to get things for her. Crying and just overall upset that she was there. My poor driving wheelchair backwards skills I somehow bumped moms’ arm and she was bleeding at the elbow. Wife took action to stop the bleeding, bandages were given and applied. Again, more talking to convince her this is the best place for her, but not having it. Threats were made that she was going to call the police, no choice but to take the phone. We had to leave. This was my wife, daughter and me. This was emotionally draining. Later this evening the wife got a call from them that she did settle down, they let her call her friend Peter and she was in a better mood. She got dressed for bed and took her meds. I will be visiting her soon and as often as I can, but I need to give it a couple of days before I do.
So how many of you old dudes out there have a living trust and giving a child power of attorney? Wife and I need to do that. Because I am responsible for my mother’s safety and wellbeing this is why it had to be done.
It is not over yet. Sell her car, home and stuff.
fd
So how many of you old dudes out there have a living trust and giving a child power of attorney? Wife and I need to do that. Because I am responsible for my mother’s safety and wellbeing this is why it had to be done.
It is not over yet. Sell her car, home and stuff.
fd
Been there myself Tim. My mom was in a small care home and had a nice room...nice people in a real house. She became such a problem they kicked her out. We then got home care in her house...costs more and things went missing in the end.
And yes we have had a living trust for years. The kids have full access...so you have to trust your kids.
And yes we have had a living trust for years. The kids have full access...so you have to trust your kids.
The estate sale was yesterday and today. My realtor is the one who handled that tedious job. Couple of big items did not sell. Dresser and a wall unit. But a guy came in at the end and made an offer for everything that was left. Fine with me. Monday they will be clearing everything out, and when the empty house is cleaned the for sale sign will go out front.
Mom had a box with some dad’s stuff in it. His wallet with 13 dollars still in it. Pulls out a paper with the cost of his senior living place. About the same as cost for mom. But I know that it will increase as she needs more care.
Had a good visit last night. Apparently, a new resident just moved in. It is a man and she already knows his name and where he lived. I get that it can be frustrating for her at times, wanting to talk with others. Rosa is hard of hearing, but not too far gone yet. But "Ron" is not too bad yet. So I am hoping that she will have a new friend to talk to.
Phone call with CalPERS on Friday to get moms insurance started after the 90 day wait time. Going to cover almost half the cost. Thank you, dad, and thank you city of Tustin. But that took almost 45 minutes of answering questions about mom and why she is where she is.
With the realtor spending so much time at mom’s house she has been talking to the neighbors. Getting stories that mom has been doing things for some time now. Her Infiniti uses a FOB and a start button. She went to a neighbor because she could not figure out where to put the key to start her car. Her mailbox is on the other side of the street several houses down. Assume that is why she was outside on her street. She would knock on a neighbor’s door to get a ride home, because she was lost on her own street. This is upsetting that they were not able to report this, but it does give me a sense of relief that I have done the right thing. Basically, taking her life away, choosing where she lives and what she can have. This is so she does not hurt herself or anyone else.
fd
Mom had a box with some dad’s stuff in it. His wallet with 13 dollars still in it. Pulls out a paper with the cost of his senior living place. About the same as cost for mom. But I know that it will increase as she needs more care.
Had a good visit last night. Apparently, a new resident just moved in. It is a man and she already knows his name and where he lived. I get that it can be frustrating for her at times, wanting to talk with others. Rosa is hard of hearing, but not too far gone yet. But "Ron" is not too bad yet. So I am hoping that she will have a new friend to talk to.
Phone call with CalPERS on Friday to get moms insurance started after the 90 day wait time. Going to cover almost half the cost. Thank you, dad, and thank you city of Tustin. But that took almost 45 minutes of answering questions about mom and why she is where she is.
With the realtor spending so much time at mom’s house she has been talking to the neighbors. Getting stories that mom has been doing things for some time now. Her Infiniti uses a FOB and a start button. She went to a neighbor because she could not figure out where to put the key to start her car. Her mailbox is on the other side of the street several houses down. Assume that is why she was outside on her street. She would knock on a neighbor’s door to get a ride home, because she was lost on her own street. This is upsetting that they were not able to report this, but it does give me a sense of relief that I have done the right thing. Basically, taking her life away, choosing where she lives and what she can have. This is so she does not hurt herself or anyone else.
fd
camachinist
Member
Definitely worthwhile; my caution would be as to the manner in which a POA is executed and as to type, presuming you're referring to a power of attorney for finance. In the hands of an unscrupulous child, it can bankrupt the parent. My parents also had an older trust and general POA for finance (the most 'dangerous' kind) and durable POA for health care and, also, the documents were older and hadn't been updated and, in my case, one sentence missing from the financial POA caused about a ten grand bill and court time to get fixed.
Overall though, a clear advantage IME for both peace of mind and ease in dealing with 'the system'. At the end, in our case, the DNR kept the tubes away and instead mom got morphine and atropine after she forgot how to swallow and that eased her gently from the mortal coil.
Kudos to you, apparently benefits vary or have changed because even as the survivor of a 40 year state employee CALPERS provided nothing other than supplemental medical coverage during my 8 year stint as care manager and caregiver. That coverage was substantial but in no way paid for custodial care, that was on me, the estate and, later, MedicAid. Folks who might have known me during that early 2000's from Knotts and the feeds likely didn't know those were my getaways to save my sanity because caregiving for a dementia patient can be very costly to one's psyche.
It sounds like your mother, though not wishing to change, that's IMO to be expected, is otherwise a relatively docile dementia patient. In our case the actual director of the locked facility visited mom at home and interviewed her and, later, when she had one of her psychotic episodes (different brand of dementia from Alzheimer's) we lied to her and told her we were taking her to visit him so his people could clean all the bad people out of the house. He was key in getting her to voluntarily sign in to a locked facility.
Since you're well down the road and the consensus was reached relatively quickly, perhaps further diagnosis/research is unwarranted. In our case, due to the unique nature of the disease process, we hooked up with UCSF's research team and they spent months during the diagnosis process and then tracked the case over the years and ultimately extracted her brain to autopsy and share findings across the academic realm. The formal diagnosis was paraphrenic vascular dementia with psychosis.
May God be with your family during this time. Brain disease can be hard on relationships. In my case it cost me my marriage. Hopefully far better fortunes will befall you. There will be good days too, and we all have memories. Take care.