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Right, just stuff we make.

Yes, 3" for the shoulders and lap belts, 2" for the sub. I have plenty of any color in stock. :danc
 
"Shaun" said:
Right, just stuff we make.

Yes, 3" for the shoulders and lap belts, 2" for the sub. I have plenty of any color in stock. :danc
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Cool.
Once I figure out how to mount them without a rollbar, I'll be set, lol.
 
"Fast68back" said:
Why not build a bracket that uses the rear two seat bolts and comes up behind the seat to mount the belts to?
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That's an interesting idea, since I wouldn't have to have the back seat in for these occasional track day.
Schroth Racing makes an interesting Quick Fit system that actually has the shoulder harnesses extended to the rear seatbelt attachment points so you can actually click them in and out.
These aren't sanctioning-body approved because they angle down and not straight back, but for a street car that only occasionally does a track day, it's alot better than a lap belt.
 
"joesgt281" said:
These aren't sanctioning-body approved because they angle down and not straight back, but for a street car that only occasionally does a track day, it's alot better than a lap belt.
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Without testing that could be debatable. Those belts are for posers, rice rockets and cars with Lambo door conversions.

If the shoulder belts are too long and angled too far down, you could suffer spinal compression injuries from the belt pulling you down into the floor and if it stretches the approx. 20% it should you could still smash your face into the wheel.

What if you have the occasional crash on your occasional track day? Not trying to give you a hard time, its just if you want to go fast and not be as safe as you could be, you are taking a huge risk.
 
i hear you Shaun, but the only alternative I'm hearing is "put in a rollbar".
and on top of that I'm hearing "never put a rollbar in a street car if you ever want somebody to ride in the back".
i've got a lap belt and that's it.
isn't something like this better than that?
My fear is having my non-collapsable steering shaft through my chest.
i'm not convinced that there's a spine-compression risk when the straps go straight back through shoulder-height race-seat openings. If the seat breaks, then yes. If not, no.
It risk could be there, I just haven't seen the research on it.
 
Lots of folks open track with all sorts of setups. You can do whatever you like I just wanted to get out there what is the safest setup and some possible issues with other configurations.

Seats are not designed to have the force of the belts pulling down on the shoulder harness slots.
 
Joe,

On the same line as Shaun; A few things to consider if you want to occasionally open track the car. Even though you may only go once, you could wad the car up. I've seen 4 cars (in 5 years) leave the track on flatbeds, never to be driven again. 2 that had at least a roll bar and harnesses walked away. The other 2 were hurt, luckily not to the point they needed evac'd.
Last Wed a young kid from Wichita drove his new 350Z, all tricked out, huge brakes, blah, blah, blah and stuffed it into the inside concrete wall coming onto the front straight, totaling it. It was definitely not a good day for him.

The reason Shaun, myself and others keep saying this stuff is we just don't want to see anyone seriously hurt or killed from not having at least the basic safety items or incomplete items when they go on track. I personally have a 6pt cage, race seats, 6pt harnesses, fire suit, shoes and gloves. Are they the best, no. Could I have a better cage setup, no doubt, but it will help in most situations.

I'm not being mean, arrogant or opinionated, I just don't want to see anyone hurt, because it is dangerous. Without a bar of some sort to attach the harnesses in the correct angles, they will not work as designed and could possibly make matters worse. Corner Carvers covers this from all angles if you want to do some reading.
 
"Shaun" said:
Lots of folks open track with all sorts of setups. You can do whatever you like I just wanted to get out there what is the safest setup and some possible issues with other configurations.
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And thank you for that. Those of us trying to use our cars as dual-purpose machines have to compromise on alot it seems. Tires are a great example. I'd love to have a set of dedicated road course wheels/tires, but the budget just doesn't allow for that right now. So when I took her out a couple weeks ago, she was shod with my American Racing Shelby 427 wheels (thanks Shaun!) and Nitto Drag Radials on the back :hide2
They actually did pretty well (based on my limited experience).

"Shaun" said:
Seats are not designed to have the force of the belts pulling down on the shoulder harness slots.
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I believe that to be true. In speaking with the Schroth guys about using their system with my race seat, they said that they test all of the seats that their belts are spec'd for (BMWs, VWs, etc), and they know that those seats can take the downward force. They were politely telling me that they can't guarantee that my seat would do the same.

I dunno Shaun, maybe there's more guys out there than me that want safety, but need streetability, that would be willing to pay for a solution that S&T could offer. Maybe design a seat that could actually take the stress? Maybe a trunk mounted bar just below the rear glass that extentions could tie to, and deal with the stretch issue by doubling up on the number of straps?

If I ever come up with something that's valid from an engineering point of view, I'll let you know. Until then I'll just clinch my gut....lol.
 
And thanks for your input as well Mark.
You've made a good point that even though a guy like me may only go out on a rare occasion, the worst could still happen.
I appreciate the emphasis on safety being expressed here and that's why I'm trying to do things to raise the level in my situation.

I've tried to register at Corner Carvers but am having trouble.
I pm'd Nick earlier today to see if he could help.
 
"joesgt281" said:
i hear you Shaun, but the only alternative I'm hearing is "put in a rollbar".
and on top of that I'm hearing "never put a rollbar in a street car if you ever want somebody to ride in the back".
i've got a lap belt and that's it.
isn't something like this better than that?
My fear is having my non-collapsable steering shaft through my chest.
i'm not convinced that there's a spine-compression risk when the straps go straight back through shoulder-height race-seat openings. If the seat breaks, then yes. If not, no.
It risk could be there, I just haven't seen the research on it.
Click to expand...

I saw someone at a track event who added just a cross bar for track days. He welded some quick release brackets for the cross bar that mount behind the upper sail panels. For track days, he just removed the upper sail panels; quickly installed the cross bar; and installed his shoulder harness to the cross bar. Although this solution does not provide the roll over protection (or chassis stiffening) of a roll bar, I thought it was a good alternative solution for someone who does not want to cut up their interior to install a roll bar/cage.
 
What Mike said is a good alternative. I really hate to see a full bar and people in the back seat :skull
 
"garner67" said:
I saw someone at a track event who added just a cross bar for track days. He welded some quick release brackets for the cross bar that mount behind the upper sail panels. For track days, he just removed the upper sail panels; quickly installed the cross bar; and installed his shoulder harness to the cross bar. Although this solution does not provide the roll over protection (or chassis stiffening) of a roll bar, I thought it was a good alternative solution for someone who does not want to cut up their interior to install a roll bar/cage.
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Yeah, Tim65 (over on VMF) has this in his fastback. Really neat idea.
 
Question...is there any way to put a 13" rotor/ alum caliper behind a 15" rim, or does that defy physics and natural law? Some of us have 15" wheels for 'vintage' purposes... :D

I read your writeup on the 4-piston calipers, and thats a great job, but those are heeavvvvvyyyyy calipers....
 
"LMan68" said:
Question...is there any way to put a 13" rotor/ alum caliper behind a 15" rim, or does that defy physics and natural law? Some of us have 15" wheels for 'vintage' purposes... :D

I read your writeup on the 4-piston calipers, and thats a great job, but those are heeavvvvvyyyyy calipers....
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Thanks. They are heavy but at least the aluminum hat gets back 3lbs or so. Combine that with an aluminum hub and it should be a wash. I'm working on a aluminum hub right now but in sunny MI I'm out of testing time so it won't get any more road/track testing until next year.

There is room. Here is the 12" rotor in a 15x7 TTD:



..but I don't know of a iron caliper that will work. You need iron right to be legal? There are many aluminum calipers that could work, say from Wilwood...

ABS makes a aluminum version of the Tbird caliper. I've been wanting to get ahold of a set to offer it in our Trans-Am kit but they have been out of stock all this year...
 
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