Solenoid and alt question

[Dne']

I had these questions on my intake manifold thread, so I'm asking the questions again here.

1) I started my motor and it wouldn't stop running. I bopped the started solenoid and it died. Now it starts up and dies ok. The smaller solenoid wire I understand that cranks the motor, but the ignition terminal I don't! I have the electric choke, fan relay(for my electric radiator fans), and the wire for the coil. Is this too much current for this terminal(the photo doesn't show the wire from my electric choke)? The solenoid was stuck so the motor wouldn't die until I tapped the solenoid. The electric choke on the carb gets REALLY hot.

2) I mentioned about my alternator is not charging still despite reving the motor. I do have a Tuff Stuff Chrome 100amp alternator, but I lost the instructions of where to run the wires, mainly the smaller wires coming out of the side of the new alt. I understand to run a larger gauge wire to the positive side of the starter solenoid, but the other two wires have me stumped. After I've installed the alternator, what do I do with the plug that went to the existing voltage regulator, and the wires that went to the older style alternator, and how do I make the ammeter work? am I asking too much? lol

Thank you!
dne'

 

[AzPete]

I would replace the solenoid. Hate it to stick on the road and go out for good. So many new ones are not good out of the box. Went thru three on a friends car a few months back.

As for the alt., you might try reading here and there is another reference in it. They talk a bit about the 3 wire 100 amp unit to.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/587209-summit-1-wire-alternator.html

As far as the choke getting hot....it is an electrical coil that has power applied when ever the key is on so it should be hot. I have never felt the choke on mine after it has been running.

 

[Dne']

decisions decisions! lol

Thank you Pete! After reading that about the one wire, it's still a toss up! I have the factory 3 wire/external VR on the car now, but will spend some more time in getting it to work. Would you happen to know how to bypass or jump the VR to see if the alternator is working? I may have to take the alternator off and take it to NAPA and let them see if it works. I can pick up another solenoid while I'm there too.
thanks again!

 

[AzPete]

I have always just checked voltage out of the back of the alt. to see if it is working. Same as the battery position to check at. You might try disconnecting the fans and any other heavy load for the test and when you rev the engine, see if the volts at the battery go up as they should. Otherwise, pull it and have NAPA check it.

I would shy away from the one wire based on the possibility of low out put when idling. Someone else might have a better reference.

 

[TB350]

Hi Dne', quick question. Do you run your choke off the large left post? If so, wouldn't that cause the choke coil to be energized all the time (direct connection to the bat). My Fastback came from Florida with no choke. In my research to hook one up, I found many people were using the "S" terminal on the Alt. so it would only be hot while running. kip, Love your car!!!

 

[Dne']

How nice!

Thank you for the nice comment on my car TB350! As for the choke wire, it's on the ignition post of the solenoid~ that's the wire I was worried about possibly putting to much strain on my solenoid, but when I have my altnantor off having it checked, I think I'll wire it like you said on the "S" terminal.

Pete, I should have some time today to at least do some more checking with my voltmeter, plus I'll do as you said and disconnect the electric fan/s(only one runs/ the other is for the AC).
I'll be back!
dne'

Hi Dne', quick question. Do you run your choke off the large left post? If so, wouldn't that cause the choke coil to be energized all the time (direct connection to the bat). My Fastback came from Florida with no choke. In my research to hook one up, I found many people were using the "S" terminal on the Alt. so it would only be hot while running. kip, Love your car!!!

 

[apollard]

Re: How nice!

As for the choke wire, it's on the ignition post of the solenoid~ that's the wire I was worried about possibly putting to much strain on my solenoid, but when I have my altnantor off having it checked, I think I'll wire it like you said on the "S" terminal.

I would move it from this location. When not cranking, the voltage at this terminal is coming through the ballast resistor in the harness, and what load there is for the choke (1 amp or so), it is 'robbing' from the coil.

If you've removed or bypassed the ballast wire, it should not be a problem, however.

 

[Dne']

Ballast wire?

Gosh I hate to sound like a geek :craz, but where would the ballast wire be? If it would be under the dash, Midlife overhauled that harness, but under the hood is all new wiring from laurel mountain.

I would move it from this location. When not cranking, the voltage at this terminal is coming through the ballast resistor in the harness, and what load there is for the choke (1 amp or so), it is 'robbing' from the coil.

If you've removed or bypassed the ballast wire, it should not be a problem, however.

 

[66gt350]

The ballast wire, aka resistor wire, is under the dash. It's the large pink wire.

 

[apollard]

Midlife overhauled it - then you've got the ballast wire, and it's working properly.

As stated, it's a thick pink wire under the dash. But, I'd just move the choke to the stator terminal on the alt - mine has worked well there for years. Bonus - it doesn't heat up unless the engine is running (unlike any other 'key on' solution).

 

[Dne']

update on charging

A while back, I had installed a new mechanical VR, and I worried a little bit cause it became warm with the key on, and I couldn't get an answer other than replace the VR. So I replaced it with an electronic VR. So I found the mechanical one a little bit ago, plugged it in, grounded it, and now it seems to be charging! So now I'm charging the battery with my charger and let the battery get a good charge. All I know right now is that it would go from 12.00 volts to eventually 13.00v at about 2k rpms. The ammeter only moves a fraction at best. I don't have a way to measure the amps it putting out~ how do I measure amps? or is the voltmeter at least telling me it's charging and leave well enough alone?

How do I know this alternator will be able to run, say, AC, lights, and dual electric fans? I think it's a 65amp, but it doesn't say on the box it came in.
In the meantime, I'm happy!
Thank you for your help!

Midlife overhauled it - then you've got the ballast wire, and it's working properly.

As stated, it's a thick pink wire under the dash. But, I'd just move the choke to the stator terminal on the alt - mine has worked well there for years. Bonus - it doesn't heat up unless the engine is running (unlike any other 'key on' solution).

 

[Jonk67]

From what I've read running the hot wire for electric choke off the stator is the way Ford did it later, mine worked fine that way for >1yr. before teardown.
Just to give you another option if you still have alt. troubles I installed a large case 100A 1G alt. from a mid '70 fullsize ford, same number of wires, just need to be spliced into the old harness. Same VR as your small case 1G. I don't have to rev it to get full amps and it almost looks stock, really have to notice it's not a small case. Bolts, spacer, brackets are all the same from my stock alt., had to size out a ~1" longer alt. belt but it works great and will be plenty of amps for my stereo, amp, driving lights, etc....
I talked to 2 ind. alt. rebuilders that advised me the small case alt. built up with 100A internals is prone to overheating and short life due to the min. cooling in the smaller case, larger case needed to get the heat out.

I also had a brand new solenoid that was bad and stuck on 'run', had to pull the neg. cable to stop it, I try to use Standard Ign. or BWD now for quality.
Jon

Please ignore the messy wires and old paint, it's all out for a rebuild now, paint and wires will be fresh and tidy!

 

[Dne']

Gee Jonk, that's neat! My husband will literally shoot me if I buy anymore parts! lol But I like what you've done with that larger alternator! So this large Alt doesn't have a built in regulator and I could use it with my existing VR that's mounted on my raditor support? Can this alterntor be purchased at my local autoparts(when I'm ready to buy)? You know the guys/gals at the autoparts store cannot do anything without an application of what the alternator would go on~ If I were to go in NApA and ask for the kind of alternator your showing me, they'd show me the door out! lol here in Houston, I'll be stuck in slow moving traffic often and I want an alternator that will hold up~ you'rs looks like the ticket! thanks!
dne'

From what I've read running the hot wire for electric choke off the stator is the way Ford did it later, mine worked fine that way for >1yr. before teardown.
Just to give you another option if you still have alt. troubles I installed a large case 100A 1G alt. from a mid '70 fullsize ford, same number of wires, just need to be spliced into the old harness. Same VR as your small case 1G. I don't have to rev it to get full amps and it almost looks stock, really have to notice it's not a small case. Bolts, spacer, brackets are all the same from my stock alt., had to size out a ~1" longer alt. belt but it works great and will be plenty of amps for my stereo, amp, driving lights, etc....
I talked to 2 ind. alt. rebuilders that advised me the small case alt. built up with 100A internals is prone to overheating and short life due to the min. cooling in the smaller case, larger case needed to get the heat out.

I also had a brand new solenoid that was bad and stuck on 'run', had to pull the neg. cable to stop it, I try to use Standard Ign. or BWD now for quality.
Jon

Please ignore the messy wires and old paint, it's all out for a rebuild now, paint and wires will be fresh and tidy!

 

[Jonk67]

Yeah, didn't want you to change horses midstream, just an option if it comes to that. Yes it uses the same part# VR as our older cars.

Here's a similar NAPA Part Number: RAY 2133021, from the pic it's what I call a 3 o'clock plug in, same as mine so the hot post points at my solenoid for easy wiring. I'm installing a rubber cap over the + stud to avoid hitting it with a wrench when I'm in there.
Here's a link to the NAPA post on it, they intermittently call it a 90/100A.
http://www.napaautoparts.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=RSE2133021_0232618558&An=599001+101975+50040+2040002

I searched for a '75 Lincoln Cont. w/460 and all power, same alt. came on a bunch of full size fords, mercs., the catalogs just don't always show that they're the same, found the same one listed for a '75 LTD> same part # but a one sentence desc. vs. the long desc. for the Lincoln part, go figure. I guess when you buy a lincoln you get ALL the words....

I picked up mine on fleabay for ~$40 w/shipping, turned out to be an uninstalled reman., came in a torn up original NAPA box (shoulda' kept the box top w/part#), took it to the parts store, tested it for free >fine. I always look up my own parts and go to the parts store equipped with their part #, if I don't I get the wrong part... the web usually saves me.
Jon

 

[Dne']

Thanks Jonk, I'll keep my eyes on ebay, and when going to NAPA or others, may just see if it's s stocked item. again, thanks!!
dne'

Yeah, didn't want you to change horses midstream, just an option if it comes to that. Yes it uses the same part# VR as our older cars.

Here's a similar NAPA Part Number: RAY 2133021, from the pic it's what I call a 3 o'clock plug in, same as mine so the hot post points at my solenoid for easy wiring. I'm installing a rubber cap over the + stud to avoid hitting it with a wrench when I'm in there.
Here's a link to the NAPA post on it, they intermittently call it a 90/100A.
http://www.napaautoparts.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=RSE2133021_0232618558&An=599001+101975+50040+2040002

I searched for a '75 Lincoln Cont. w/460 and all power, same alt. came on a bunch of full size fords, mercs., the catalogs just don't always show that they're the same, found the same one listed for a '75 LTD> same part # but a one sentence desc. vs. the long desc. for the Lincoln part, go figure. I guess when you buy a lincoln you get ALL the words....

I picked up mine on fleabay for ~$40 w/shipping, turned out to be an uninstalled reman., came in a torn up original NAPA box (shoulda' kept the box top w/part#), took it to the parts store, tested it for free >fine. I always look up my own parts and go to the parts store equipped with their part #, if I don't I get the wrong part... the web usually saves me.
Jon

 

[apollard]

Traffic anywhere (especially Houston) will require a bigger alt to prevent battery drain. Remeber how the lights used to dim on 60 cars? It's because those 45-65 amp alts are not putting out more than a few amps at idle.

Go with the 100 amp Jonk has (for a ore painless install) or upgrade to a 3G for more power. My 3G produces more amps at idle than the 65 amp alt max rating. I can run a/c on high, stereo, lights and electric fans - still maintaining 14 volts at idle. 3Gs are available in junkyards everywhere for $30. There are install kits that use a more stock looking wiring & a dummy regulator if you want to go that way, all you would need then would be a new main power cable (really needed for any increased amperage alt).

http://www.paperformance.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=75

 

[johnpro]

There's not a thing wrong with your current alternator, as long as it's 100 amp or more. It WILL NOT charge until you run a large wire from the big post on the battery to the same post of your solenoid as your positive battery post.

If you want to keep it as a a one-wire, that's all you need, but you will not have a altimeter. Fine by me, as most of these 40 year old altimeter gauges don't work, and they're pretty much useless when they do. A voltage gauge is the real way to go, and can be hooked up completely under the dash. I've always thought it sill to take a one-wire alternator, then put the shunt in for the altimeter, and turn it back into a 3-4 wire alternator, myself.

I don't think you have you solenoid hooked up correctly, though. The front small post marked with a "S" should have a red/blue wire going to it ("S" is for start) , the back one, marked "I" should have a brown wire going to it ("I" is for ignition), which goes to the coil. Hooking your electric choke there will work IF you have the correct brown wire hooked to it. Otherwise, it will only have power during engine cranking. It's not the ideal place for a choke hook up, but it WILL work (I've done in before on a '69 where there simply was no other place to put it. It will have no effect on your coil.

 

[Midlife]

An altimeter gauge? Those measure height above sealevel! Surely you mean an ammeter!

 

[johnpro]

An altimeter gauge? Those measure height above sealevel! Surely you mean an ammeter!

:craz

No, Midlife, you see, I FLY my Mustangs. That's just funny as hell. Yes, I meant ammeter. I have an excuse ... that's the part of my brain that they zapped with radiation!!!

:weas :weas :weas

 

[AzPete]

:craz

No, Midlife, you see, I FLY my Mustangs. That's just funny as hell. Yes, I meant ammeter. I have an excuse ... that's the part of my brain that they zapped with radiation!!!

:weas :weas :weas

So.they zapped the part of the brain that is in the head huh????
Now we know about those Mustang highs.....