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still won't start

"Midlife" said:
Are you saying that while cranking the starter, the engine just doesn't catch, but just cranks over? If you have 6.5V while cranking, then the starter solenoid is not giving the right voltage while cranking. If you have ~12V while cranking, then something is wrong with the distributor/petronix.


Another issue may be that the starter cable has deteriorated, and is demanding too many amps to turn the starter. When this happens, the voltage drops on the battery and then there's not enough voltage at the coil while cranking to fire the engine.
Click to expand...

The 6.5 V I measure was just with the key in the "on" position. I might can get one of the boys to help me and measure it while it's actually cranking.

Yes it doesn't catch, just cranks and cranks. I don't know how old the cable running to the starter is but it would be easy enough to replace....
 
Another good test would be to put a timing light on #1 cylinder and see if the light flashes as the engine cranks. No light...no firing by the distributor. Light flashes? That says the distributor is working but perhaps you're timing might be way off.

Finally, do you have gas in the tank and the carb?
 
timing should be ok. It ran right after I put all the wires back in and I havent moved the distributor.

Its got three quarters of a tank...lol
 
Reading back through this post, your car was running/starting fine... and then it just stopped working.

If I were having the problems you're having.....


1. Is the #1 spark plug getting power? Remove the plug, re-connect it to it's plug wire.... with one hand hold the plug against a good metal ground on the engine.... and with your other hand jump the starter solenoid with a screwdriver. Make sure the ignition key is on during this procedure.

If you're not getting spark using the above procedure.....

2. Run an aligator clipped jumper wire from the POS post of the BAT to the + side of the coil and repeat step #1 above. Using this procedure will eliminate the ignition circuitry and you wouldn't need the ignition key in the ON position.

If you still don't have spark at the #1 plug, the above steps have ruled the problem down to either the points/pertronix or the coil.

I wish I lived closer, I'd jump over and we'd have that sucker running in 10 minutes!

Lastly, your ALT is not part of the problem. The ALT is part of the charging sytem, not the ignition system. As long as it's hooked up the car should start regardless of the ALT's condition.
 
The more I read this thread, the more I think you have a dead coil. Maybe I'm missing something.

Your timing is good, so that is not it.

You have gas in the carb so that is not it.

The rules two of the three things needed to start.

Now you need to isolate the ignition parts.

Follow mids advice, after all he is the man with the electrical!

Mel
 
I just pulled the no. 1 plug held it against the fender apron and jumped the solenoid and had spark.

I replaced the solenoid since the starter instructions suggested it and the engine turned but stopped as soon as the key went from start to on
 
You can temporarily remove the ignition switch from the problem by running a jumper wire straight from the + BAT to the + Coil. With the jumper wire installed (an alligator clipped wire works best), jump the starter solenoid with a screwdriver and the car should start.

If you're getting spark at the #1 plug, your coil and points are likely fine.
 
"RustyRed" said:
I just pulled the no. 1 plug held it against the fender apron and jumped the solenoid and had spark.

I replaced the solenoid since the starter instructions suggested it and the engine turned but stopped as soon as the key went from start to on
Click to expand...
Sounds like your new solenoid is bad, or you're pulling too much current into the starter so that when it does shut off, the battery doesn't have enough voltage to keep the car running. That happened to me about 10 years ago, and I traced it to a bad/corroded contact where you connect the starter cable to the starter. Had to replace the starter.
 
He just replaced the starter and solenoid. Not saying that he couldn't have gotten a defective one off the shelf though...

Remember that this car was starting/running fine, he just had the wrong starter installed. The engine now cranks fine, it just won't start. Now when he turns the key he get's nothing. I'd bypass the ignition circuitry if only to rule it out.
 
the starter is new because it was bad and making a "clack, clack" sort of sound when cranking. Should I replace the cable to it?
 
Yes after you jump the solenoid to the battery. + side to + side.

It is the same as hot wiring a car. One good reason to move the battery and Solenoid to the trunk.

Mel
 
"daveSanborn" said:
You can temporarily remove the ignition switch from the problem by running a jumper wire straight from the + BAT to the + Coil. With the jumper wire installed (an alligator clipped wire works best), jump the starter solenoid with a screwdriver and the car should start.

If you're getting spark at the #1 plug, your coil and points are likely fine.
Click to expand...

Fast and probably stupid question...I would do this with the key not in the ignition or with the key turned to "on"?
 
Let's clarify in case he's not as familar with how to steal a classic Mustang as we are....


With an aligator clipped jumper wire connected from a constant 12V source.... such as the + BAT post.... over to the + post on the coil..... all you have to do is place a screwdriver onto the solenoid and touch it to both the + BAT side of the solenoid and the closest smaller terminal on the front of the solenoid (I or S post, I forget). Jumping the solenoid and coil in this manner eliminates all of the ignition circuitry and ANY stock classic Mustang should start right up and run, regardless of whether there's a key in the ignition or not.
 
"RustyRed" said:
Fast and probably stupid question...I would do this with the key not in the ignition or with the key turned to "on"?
Click to expand...

If you have a jumper wire connecting the + coil to the + BAT, the entire ignition circuitry is bypassed. The coil "thinks" it's getting it's power from the key/ignition switch, but it's not, it's getting it from the jumper wire.

No, you could leave the keys in the house for this.
 
Cool...all the more reason that I have been thinking about getting some sort of lock for my hood, LOL! Not that I leave the car unattended very often but just for piece of mind.

Really problems like this can be super frustrating but on the plus side of things I am learning a lot about Mustang electrical systems the last several weeks. I learned putting in the underdash and gauge feed harness is pretty easy even though it looks pretty intimidating with the under dash harness spread out on the work bench.

Now I am learning how to trouble shoot all kinds of things, just need to remember to make notes on some of this stuff as a reminder in the future. Why doesn't anyone make a book of practical tests like some of the ones in this thread topic?

My hunch so far is that my starter was bad and killed my battery. Lucky for me the old battery was bought in June '08 so that was a freebie to get a replacement.

I don't recall the starter cable looking that bad to be honest but it could be part of the issue. Seems like there may have been a small amount at the end of the wire with no coating on it just before the connection that hooks to the starter. No idea how old the cable is since it came with the car when I bought it. I replaced the battery cables not so long ago because the old ones looked like crap. The old ones worked fine, I just replaced them for cosmetic reasons.

When the boys go to bed in a little while I will head out to the garage and try to run a fast wire from the battery to the coil and see what happens.

The fun thing is the boys are now 8 1/2 and have been "helping" me work on the car. It's a debate some days if they "help" or "hinder" but they do help by turning wrenches for me if you tell them exactly what to bolt where. They climbed under the car and helped tighten the starter bolts...but only after I got them started to make sure they didn't cross thread anything and of course I made sure things were tight before calling it done. They did help re-attach the wires to the solenoid. This afternoon we were looking under the hood and I was explaining to them "this is the water pump and this is the alternator, this is the distributor, this is the carborator", etc....I figure they have to start learning somewhere.
 
Well Dave...I couldn't find anything to use other than a set of jumper cables.

Would that work to hook one end to the coil and the other end to the battery? Obviously I'd have to use the red on both sides (or black for that matter provided it's the same on both ends)
 
Many Fords are stolen this way. Not just Mustangs. I had a car that I lost the keys for when about 20 miles away from home. I hot wired it and was on my way. some of the newer cars have a locking steering column, so you have to break that to get going, this the dent puller in the ignition to pull the lock out and get the column unlocked.

Many ways to take a car. The newest craze in boosting a classic car is finding a manual trans car and crawl under and put it in neutral and tow it away.

I taught my daughter at 13 to change a set of SBF heads. We had a lot of fun and she loves air tools. Next time she comes home, I will show her how to change her oil. Forgot to the last time. She did an awesome install of the water pump of the 66 I had.

Let us know what happens with the hot wire.

Jumper cables should work.

Mel
 
After all you have been thru, it is time to start from scratch and verify the timing for sure. If you have spark as said, and fuel is getting to the plugs, we know air is there and compression should be there......so it comes down to the timing for everything getting there at the correct time. This is really simple so hang in there.
 
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