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still won't start

Let's try starting from the beginning. You have a lot of info scattered into two different threads. Starting a car shouldn't be this difficult and we're probably overlooking something.


I got my wiring finished last weekend and the car started right up. I started it one time this past week for a few minutes to check the volts at my choke.

Yesterday, I had to take the ground strap on the back of the block off and then put it back on...long story but basically the ground strap was in the way.

Now it won't start. It cracks but just won't fire.


After replacing the engine ground strap and installing a new starter.....


The starter is new and the "clack, clack, clack" sound when trying to turn her over is gone thankfully.

They replaced my battery for free because it was dead. But after an engine build and wire project it's been off the road a lot since about the first of October so that really wasn't a surprise.

The bad news...still won't start. Just cranks and cranks.


I just pulled the no. 1 plug held it against the fender apron and jumped the solenoid and had spark.

I replaced the solenoid since the starter instructions suggested it and the engine turned but stopped as soon as the key went from start to on


What do you mean when you say that the engine turned, but stopped as soon as the key went from start to on?



gave it a try with jumper cables. Turns the motor and cranks it but no fire.



Through ALL of our troubleshooting steps we've found that you DO have spark at the spark plug. Is this still the case? If you have spark there are only two other things that could would prevent the car from starting.... fuel and engine timing.

With the air cleaner removed, look down into the top of the carb and cycle the accelerator rod/linkage. Can you see fuel being sprayed out of the front nozzles? If yes, then the car is either flooded..... doubtful..... are the spark plugs "wet" with fuel?..... or as recently mentioned the engine somehow became out of time. Engines don't jump timing very easily. Isn't this a newly rebuilt engine? If so it should have a new timing chain on it and it's doubtful the chain would have been loose enough where it would have jumped time.

Which has now got me thinking...... Didn't Herb build this motor? Isn't one of Herb's services that he will help get the engine started upon re-installation? It might not be a bad idea to give Herb a call and get him over to the house. It's always good to have a second set of eyes look everything over.

If the fuel situation checks good, there is a recent thread from CMayna on the engine board in regard to determining/setting initial timing.
 
Good ideas Dave...

I'd have to look down the carb to be certain but once or twice after trying to crank it I smelled fuel near the carb if that helps....

I can call Herb if need be but either way I agree with a second set of eyes at this point. I sent an e-mail to a local buddy of mine to see if he had time to look at / walk me through checking out the timing.

We did the engine break in. It smoked some at first but then settled down and seemed to be fine other than very cold natured.
 
"RustyRed" said:
seemed to be fine other than very cold natured.
Click to expand...

That could be part of the problem. Being cold natured could cause one to pump more gas than needed. That would flood the engine before it could fire and run......
 
Just thinking through this...it fired fine the two times after changing out the gauge feed harness and sending the under dash harness to Mid.

I did was move the ground on the choke from near the alternator to one of the screws on the carb just like Holley would have had it out of the factory. Grounded to one of the choke screws just like the picture in the Holley instructions basically.

Maybe I should move the ground on my choke back to where it was and see what happens....?

Perhaps a bad choke is keeping it from starting?
 
I would shoot a little starting fluid in the carb and then try cranking it. If it fires you have a fuel issue. If it does not fire based on your other replies you have a timing issue.
 
Maybe I should move the ground on my choke back to where it was and see what happens....?
Click to expand...


Getting back to whatever configuration you had that allowed the car to start is always a good idea. I'm not sure if the problem is choke related, but the more things that are in the same exact configuration that allowed the car to start before, the better off you'll be.
 
"daveSanborn" said:
Getting back to whatever configuration you had that allowed the car to start is always a good idea. I'm not sure if the problem is choke related, but the more things that are in the same exact configuration that allowed the car to start before, the better off you'll be.
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I might give it a try...initially my thought was a ground is a ground so it shouldn't matter and it was pretty clear my starter was going to the crapper and that it even took my battery out with it.

I would think a car would run even without a choke although it might not run great but who knows...
 
Getting it started initially without a choke may be the hard part. Not sure about the choke ground either. Again, either the choke works or it doesn't with the ground location. Then, it is a matter of the proper choke adjustment. If it closes with a cold engine, it also must open after some starting.
 
Instead of starting fluid I use a bit of gas dumped down the carb. I also hold the choke open adn keep the air cleaner off and if I have to choke it I do it manually. You know hand over the carb waiting for a fire to catch your hand on fire trick.

Um, get back to basics and step back and start again.

Have you pulled the plugs to see if they are fouled?

Mel
 
"Fast68back" said:
choke ground? Bolted to the engine it shouldnt need a ground wire, it should be a positive 12V, no?
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I know that some carbs have both positive and negative terminal posts on their electric chokes.
 
"daveSanborn" said:
I know that some carbs have both positive and negative terminal posts on their electric chokes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's how mine is...it's a Holley and has a post or plug spot for both a + and a ground wire.

Did a couple of things this evening. One I moved the ground wire for the choke back where it was when it ran last.

Two, I moved the throttle while looking down the carb and it is squirting gas in there.

I pulled the #1 plug and it doesn't look fouled. If you hold it near your nose though you can smell gas.

I had noticed when working on the various wires that the carb sometimes smells of gas...like if you get your nose close when leaning over to reach a wire you can smell it.

I know it seemed to be running rich but I was putting off hooking up a vacuum gauge to it and trying to fix that until I got the Pertronix installed which of course led to the wiring project. Since then I had taken it for only one couple of mile drive and it wouldn't start the next time I got a chance to tool around.

Tonight after moving the choke wire it seemed like it was closer to starting. It would crank and pumping the gas it come close to starting then you would get something that almost sounded like a very slight backfire then it would die on me.
 
Pull ALL of the plugs and let the heads dry out for a few hours. If you have a compressor, blow air into each of the plug openings for a minute or two. Clean all of the plugs and then try starting it again. When you attempt to start it again, cycle the accelerator linkage twice and then hold the pedal to the floor while trying to start it.
 
I have a compressor so that is easy enough to do. I can probably get the plugs removed and the air blown in at lunch so that it has all afternoon to dry out.

Job one when (if?, lol) I get her running again is to hook up the vacuum gauge and adjust the mixture. However, I've been debating since we built this motor if I wouldn't be better off with something along the lines of a 500 CFM carb instead of the Holley 600. In the past I've looked around on places like Summit but it seems the majority of what they have is 600 or larger unless you go 2 bbl which I don't want to do.
 
You could always put smaller jets in the 600 if needed. It is a real simple change and the jets can be had thru a local parts store. Wait till it is running to see what you need though.
 
"AzPete" said:
You could always put smaller jets in the 600 if needed. It is a real simple change and the jets can be had thru a local parts store. Wait till it is running to see what you need though.
Click to expand...

I was going to wait until it's running and try to lean it out some and go from there. Thus far it running rich has been on the to do list but behind some other issues.
 
It's alive....

It was a timing issue is the short version of a long story. The plugs were gas soaked so we put in a new set also but apparently the distributor wasn't tightened down as well as it should have been and got bumped causing it to rotate some. I personally get confused on timing issues but a buddy of mine who's local helped me get it straightened out.

We've adjusted the carb a bit while we were at it and seems to be running pretty well...will have to wait and see if it still seems to be running rich or not but for now all seems well.
 
Whew! Great news, Rusty, and I'm glad my harness wasn't at fault.
 
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