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most cost effective sound deadener/heat insulation?
- Thread starter 67resto-coupe
- Start date
guruatbol
Always on vacation!
Hehehehe, my first Mustang many years ago when I was 16 had rotten interior so I tore it out. I put some old brown house carpet in it and some wood paneling door panels. It was like no interior, but due to the fact that it was a T code coupe with a crappy 3 spd I had loads of money tied up every 6 weeks on the new cluster gear, all because I couldn't drive a 3 spd without synchros...
Well, I have two cars and tend to experiment on one of them and then either copy what I did on the other or do something different.
You guys take your time and know this, do the research and in areas like transmissions and engine parts, get the right part the first time since you really don't want to do that over, but on areas where you can do it over in a year or two, do something to make it more tolerable and drive it!
Mel
Well, I have two cars and tend to experiment on one of them and then either copy what I did on the other or do something different.
You guys take your time and know this, do the research and in areas like transmissions and engine parts, get the right part the first time since you really don't want to do that over, but on areas where you can do it over in a year or two, do something to make it more tolerable and drive it!
Mel
That's the main reason I commented as I did. Removing and cleaning up after the mess the lesser products leave behind is anything but an easy task. You are essentially coating the inside of your car with roofing tar (that's what the big box store stuff basically uses for adhesive)."guruatbol" said:
AtlantaSteve
Active Member
Horseplay,
the stuff you're talking about DOES use roof tar and is awful. The stuff I bought from the big-box is from FrostKing and is an HVAC insulator, it had a thick foil backing, and a closed cell foam adhesive (very weak adhesive)
When I decide to clean it up, it'll be easy and painfree, mostly. I don't have huge hopes for the stuff making the car like a modern mercedes benz...just a little sound dampening and added heat absorption.
This is the stuff I used:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_28929-1410-FV516_0_?productId=1081449&Ntt=duct+insulation&Ntk=i_products&pl=1¤tURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=duct%20insulation$y=0$x=0
I agree with you, using the tar-based stuff is probably a bad idea, but there are other "low cost alternatives." In addition to this stuff, I also used the stock-style asphalt matts that came in the car.
the stuff you're talking about DOES use roof tar and is awful. The stuff I bought from the big-box is from FrostKing and is an HVAC insulator, it had a thick foil backing, and a closed cell foam adhesive (very weak adhesive)
When I decide to clean it up, it'll be easy and painfree, mostly. I don't have huge hopes for the stuff making the car like a modern mercedes benz...just a little sound dampening and added heat absorption.
This is the stuff I used:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_28929-1410-FV516_0_?productId=1081449&Ntt=duct+insulation&Ntk=i_products&pl=1¤tURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=duct%20insulation$y=0$x=0
I agree with you, using the tar-based stuff is probably a bad idea, but there are other "low cost alternatives." In addition to this stuff, I also used the stock-style asphalt matts that came in the car.
"AtlantaSteve" said:
That's the stuff I saw at the store and was thinking of using. It was fairly thin though and wasn't sure that was the stuff I was told about. Did you just use one layer of it? Is that all you used was that and then carpet over it, or did you use any kind of spray in sound deadener first?
Steve,
What does the stuff you used cost? I ask because I don't think the savings is a great as some may think compared to say, Fat Mat.
Also, be very careful when it comes to adhesive. Being in my field I know a thing or two about it. Lots of guys say to use the 3M77 spray, for example. This stuff will not hold over time or temp extremes. It won't. If you insist on using something that requires extra adhesive (which should be your first clue that it is not the right stuff!) at least step up to their 99 spray and spray both the "insulator" and the panel location.
By the time you buy the products made for completely different applications and the additional adhesive, I bet you're not saving anywhere near the dollars that would make worth taking teh chance and more importantly giving up the very real benefits of using a product made for the job.
For example, I got the largest box of Dynamat Extreme off an E-Bay store for under $90. This is more than enough to do a Mustang floor and then some. Raam costs even less and according to one poster here, Fat Mat less again. These products use the right adhesive, and offer both temperature insulation and sound deadening properties. HVAC products are made for insulating properties alone and any sound benefit is simply a bonus. If you read up on all the scientific testing of this stuff you will see night and day difference in actual performance between the "real" products" and the "this should work too" stuff.
BTW, my company sells material to Frost King that they use in the manufacture of many of their products. Let's just say we make quite a spread of product grades and they always choose near the bottom.
What does the stuff you used cost? I ask because I don't think the savings is a great as some may think compared to say, Fat Mat.
Also, be very careful when it comes to adhesive. Being in my field I know a thing or two about it. Lots of guys say to use the 3M77 spray, for example. This stuff will not hold over time or temp extremes. It won't. If you insist on using something that requires extra adhesive (which should be your first clue that it is not the right stuff!) at least step up to their 99 spray and spray both the "insulator" and the panel location.
By the time you buy the products made for completely different applications and the additional adhesive, I bet you're not saving anywhere near the dollars that would make worth taking teh chance and more importantly giving up the very real benefits of using a product made for the job.
For example, I got the largest box of Dynamat Extreme off an E-Bay store for under $90. This is more than enough to do a Mustang floor and then some. Raam costs even less and according to one poster here, Fat Mat less again. These products use the right adhesive, and offer both temperature insulation and sound deadening properties. HVAC products are made for insulating properties alone and any sound benefit is simply a bonus. If you read up on all the scientific testing of this stuff you will see night and day difference in actual performance between the "real" products" and the "this should work too" stuff.
BTW, my company sells material to Frost King that they use in the manufacture of many of their products. Let's just say we make quite a spread of product grades and they always choose near the bottom.
RyanG85
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with Horseplay on this one. I'm in the process of sound proofing my 65 and looked into cheaper options but in the end chose the Dynamat extreme. This is a job I only want to do once. If anything, Put the good stuff in the hard to get to areas that you dont want to have to take apart twice. My 69 is in primer and driven whenever the weather permits. The interior is loud with just the carpet and no insulation but I deal with it till I'm ready to do it right. To me, the hardest part of a restoration is undoing something that was done to just get you by. Sound deadener is not a necessity, cars can be and are driven without it.
This is the cowl/firewall work I just did, there is no way I would want to have to redo this again.....
This is the cowl/firewall work I just did, there is no way I would want to have to redo this again.....
blu67
Well-Known Member
The website with all the great info and comparison used to be www.sounddeadenershowdown.com but he seems to have changed his website and doesn't provide the comparison pages he originally had. Too bad. That was a great site with great info on extremes and quality for various manufacturers.
AtlantaSteve
Active Member
Don't quote me on price, but I think when I was done I had 45 dollars in it. I didn't run it all up the firewall, or cover every square inch. I just focused on the floor pan. The adhesive doesn't hold AT ALL, and it would require a better adhesive (which,as you mention could be costlier, and still not adhere like the butyl stuff) I just decided to put it in and see what the difference was. I had no confidence in it holding to a vertical surface, so I only used it on plaes where gravity and the carpet will be holding it down.
Took about 20 minutes to put in...My hopes aren't very high. My main "concern," if you could call it that, is it deteriorating due to heat extemes and "sticking" to the floor pan so much that it'll tear when I take it up, and I'll have to clean it off with a scraper. If that happens, I'll just deal with it.
I hope to one day redo the carpet and headliner...when I do, I'll use some actual "for purpose" sound deadener. My eyes are on these two products:
elemental designs, 1 dollar per sq ft: http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_24&products_id=51
elemental designs 2 dollars per sq ft: http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_24&products_id=786
HyTech "Brush on" 60 dollars per gallon (approx 75-100 sq ft) http://hytechsales.com/prodsc.html
Took about 20 minutes to put in...My hopes aren't very high. My main "concern," if you could call it that, is it deteriorating due to heat extemes and "sticking" to the floor pan so much that it'll tear when I take it up, and I'll have to clean it off with a scraper. If that happens, I'll just deal with it.
I hope to one day redo the carpet and headliner...when I do, I'll use some actual "for purpose" sound deadener. My eyes are on these two products:
elemental designs, 1 dollar per sq ft: http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_24&products_id=51
elemental designs 2 dollars per sq ft: http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_24&products_id=786
HyTech "Brush on" 60 dollars per gallon (approx 75-100 sq ft) http://hytechsales.com/prodsc.html
AtlantaSteve
Active Member
"blu67" said:
Somewhere on his server he archived the old site as a PDF, but I can't seem to find it now...maybe someone who has the link will come along and read this and help us out
Jonk67
Well-Known Member
My experiences mirror Steve and most everyone else's with the FrostKing, it'll do but don't expect it to stay on ANYTHING vertical. I tried to use it on my firewall floorboard with 3M adhesive spray on both surfaces (can't remember if it was 77 or 99). I had first cleaned the surface and painted on POR15 (worked great). Then sprayed the 3M on both, applied the frostking and waited a day. I could easily peel it right back off (~70* <50% humidity TMR) would have been falling on my feet by the time I would have driven the car. I have 2 rolls leftover now and will probably use it under the rear seat and in the trunk floor, etc. somewhere level.
Now I had to pull it all out, clean all the 3M off the floorboard with acetone/paint thinner so the next stuff will stick. I then purchased some Damplifier as they came out with black foil faced, once I rolled the carpet back down I could see the silver of the frostking the first time so I went black for the floorboard. Damplifier seems to have a 'not up to spec' batch every couple of months as i get emails from them, if it's Xmm too thin they sell it for ~40% less, etc. This stuff has some wt. to it compared to the frostking and really sticks. I had the best luck cutting it in 1'X1' and applying it to the floorboard with a roller as there are a lot of compound angles up the wall. See if you can find a quality wood or nylon roller at a hobby store as theirs is cheap and I broke the pin that holds the wheel on the first day....
I'm satisfied with the Damplifier application/appearance so far and got some of the discount silver to do my roof, doors, floor, panels, etc. I installed a new firewall pad too after the Damplifier. I haven't decided if I'm going to replace the tar mat stuff that came stock now that I have the Damplifier which will probably do a better job as it's stuck to the metal vs. just being laid on top of it. Hopefull I'll hear the exhaust only through the open windows and not the vibrating floor...
Jon
Now I had to pull it all out, clean all the 3M off the floorboard with acetone/paint thinner so the next stuff will stick. I then purchased some Damplifier as they came out with black foil faced, once I rolled the carpet back down I could see the silver of the frostking the first time so I went black for the floorboard. Damplifier seems to have a 'not up to spec' batch every couple of months as i get emails from them, if it's Xmm too thin they sell it for ~40% less, etc. This stuff has some wt. to it compared to the frostking and really sticks. I had the best luck cutting it in 1'X1' and applying it to the floorboard with a roller as there are a lot of compound angles up the wall. See if you can find a quality wood or nylon roller at a hobby store as theirs is cheap and I broke the pin that holds the wheel on the first day....
I'm satisfied with the Damplifier application/appearance so far and got some of the discount silver to do my roof, doors, floor, panels, etc. I installed a new firewall pad too after the Damplifier. I haven't decided if I'm going to replace the tar mat stuff that came stock now that I have the Damplifier which will probably do a better job as it's stuck to the metal vs. just being laid on top of it. Hopefull I'll hear the exhaust only through the open windows and not the vibrating floor...
Jon
Here's the thing...if you don't have very good adhesion of the product to the metal you're not going to get any real sound deadening benefit. Sound is transmitted mechanically (vibration) and that is why the "good stuff" works so well as it is not only engineered to bond well but also has material layers that are engineered to stop the "sound".
AtlantaSteve
Active Member
That's great! That's why I'd RATHER have the more expensive stuff...But "vehicle comfort" is not the top of my priorities, based on budget and my skill level, I'm going for a "Ratty Hot Rod" kinda thing. I'm not fixing the rust in the door panel or on the fender right now. What I want is for my car to brake great, handle great, and run fast. Vehicle appearance and vehicle comfort aren't the priorities. I have my DD for that.
Yes, it's a skimp. I gotta do what I gotta do to get through this.
Yes, it's a skimp. I gotta do what I gotta do to get through this.
RyanG85
Well-Known Member
in that case, the stock style insulator would be all you need..
I hear ya, Steve. I'm just putting out there for all what I know and have learned about this subject. I get that some choose to use their budget dollars elsewhere, etc.
FWIW, I agree that this is certainly not a must have for every project.
FWIW, I agree that this is certainly not a must have for every project.
AtlantaSteve
Active Member
Yes, and everything you've said has been right. If I gave the impression that the stuff I'm using is what I suggest everyone do, then I gave the wrong impression.
Each and everyone one of us have to do what we think is right. We research, ponder, look at our budget, and just hope we're making the right choice for what we want our car to be.
I'm probably getting into my car at the wrong time in my life...however, I've had that car since I was 16, and honestly, it was ALWAYS the wrong time of my life. What're you gonna do, my love for my car defies logic
Each and everyone one of us have to do what we think is right. We research, ponder, look at our budget, and just hope we're making the right choice for what we want our car to be.
I'm probably getting into my car at the wrong time in my life...however, I've had that car since I was 16, and honestly, it was ALWAYS the wrong time of my life. What're you gonna do, my love for my car defies logic
AzPete
Well-Known Member
If we used logic, all of the old cars would still be rust buckets......
RyanG85
Well-Known Member
scary thought...but true. Good thing we are a bunch of unlogical suckers!"AzPete" said:
"Jonk67" said:
I put the stock tar mat stuff down under the back seat, over the Damplifier, but I'm also not sure about putting it in the rest of the interior. I have a new set of the stuff and I think I'll try, but I'll test fit the carpet both ways and see which I like the best. I had the Dynomat roll material down in another car and it made the carpet seem spongy and it wouldn't lay right, so I'm not wanting the "extra" bulk--although the Damplifier really doesn't seem to add much bulk and conforms to the molded floors well.