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My newest project, '59 Apache Truck

Dne'

Quite honestly, I think you are over-paying for the car. You really don't know anything about that engine and a grand is, in my opinion, more than top dollar for that car. That engine cranking right up means nothing, honestly. He knew you were coming and I promise you he went out just before to make sure it would do just as it did. Any of us would do the same, right? It might be OK but it also might have 200k miles on it for all you know. You can score a freshly rebuilt stock engine for about that price. Less if you are patient. You can pick up a trans on the cheap (free) as well.

By the time you get that lug home, disassemble and pull what you can and get it sold off I really don't think you saved anything in the end. I also think this great guy is just taking advantage of you.

I hope I haven't crossed a line here or upset you by telling you exactly what I think. If nothing else, maybe it will prompt you to take a hard look at the deal. In my experience, if you find yourself questioning something it is usually because, on some level, you know you should.
 
On the flip side, if you buy a rebuilt long block then need to accessorize it you'll be into it for a lot more than a grand. The advantage to the impala is you'll have virtually every nut an bolt, clip bracket that you'll probabaly need. The down side is that you just don't know how long the motor will last. Back on '01, my '65 el Camino had a worn out 350 in it. I called a bunch of local rebuilder who all wanted well over a grand to rebuilt it. I really wanted a big block, but the accessory changes was a budget buster and I ended up buying a rebuilt 350 longblock from autozone for about $600 (with core). Not a perfomance motor by any stretch, but it ran well up until I tore it down recently for performance upgrades. A grand seems a little steep, but still might be a fair deal considering what it could cost sourcing everything individually. Any chance you could negotiate a little better deal?
 
Those were really good answers, pros n cons! exactly of how I'm thinking! as for asking for a lower price, I don't think that would really matter, it's ONLY a 1000.oo! lol The guy that referred me to him, said he's the most honest guy you'll ever meet~ he has 100's of projects at his shop~ he just said he can always pick up another car like this to use the motor/tranny etc. I didn't find this through an ad, it was by word. I do know it's alot of work to pull what I want, all of car restoration is work, challenging. My husband gets a little agitated by the thought of another old clunker being around here until I'm done with it, you know worrying about what neighbors will say.

If the AC will work like Sylvester was saying, retrofitting should be a challege, but would save 1350.oo from buying a new system, however if it doesn't fit, I'm in trouble by making new holes in the firewall to retrofit. I would relocate the battery underneath the passenger side floor.

He said use the radiator/shroud, it's recent and goes with the motor, just a lot or little of massaging. or the rad may not fit at all!
I was even thinking of using the entire wiring harness under the dash to fit with the AC, steering column, etc.

Wow, this is worse than a brain freeze! makes my brain hurt! lol no conclusions yet, may call Herb, my recent engine builder to see what he can put together for me~ just a plain Jane 350 would be fine, but it would be nice having all those brackets, everything is there! The devil's on one side, and the angel is on the other(buy it, dont buy it!)
 
I would spend some time doing measurements (and reading on line) as to what might fit. Check radiator space, rear end size, space under dash for A/C, and any area you plan on moving in the car parts to. Then, do the same on the car and compare sizes. You may find that you want different parts...you may find things are an easy swap.

Sounds like you are buying just because it sounds like a good idea without having really thought about or researched the trucks needs and potential as to what will work best for the money. Or, maybe I am wrong.
 
Ok, I've been lurking on this thread and not saying anything, but I can not be quiet anymore.

DNE - Have you bumped your head?

As I see it if you use the vacuum controlled AC these cars had and the under hood parts you will have to convert it to R134 which is sometimes very easy, but sometimes more of a PIA than it is worth.

You have a nice truck why EFF it up jury rigging a steering column from an Impala?

IMHO you are asking for more trouble than the deal is worth. If it were a truck, I would say you might have something.

350 truck engines are 4 bolt main, the Impala probably 2 bolt. That year impala I found when I worked on the farm back in the 80s blew chunks! GM made some significant changes that year which IIRC caused some tranny and engine issues at around 80k....

Wake up a smell the coffee and see how much extra work you are creating for yourself. If the car was $500 I would say OK, get it and start taking stuff off. Does it have any other options like PW, PDL etc? You can use some of them too.

I would not use the differential in the truck, not heavy duty enough.

IMHO it seems you want this "Good deal" and can't see the trees for the forest. You will have huge work ahead of you just tearing this beast down to use a few parts. Then once you have used those parts, the shell will be an issue to sell.

Oh, don't just give away your old engine and tranny. Depending on which 4 speed it has there is a real market for it and the same goes for the I6.

I do not mean to make you cry, just want you to wake up.....

Mel
 
This is what I wanted to hear, good true points of views! When I was at Sylvesters shop, he and his friend do this almost for a living and the room, equipment and most of all, knowing how to bolt anything up to anything. Kind of like that Johnny Cash song.

I put in the back of my mind for now, I don't actually need the stuff right now, I have enough to work on for several months in the cab alone!

I can't tell you all how I appreciate you advice! I am going to call Herb and see what he can come up with for me regarding a or freshly rebuilt motor. finding parts such as alt/ps brackets should be available somewhere. So that shouldn't be such a big deal. and the aftermarket ac is good stuff, pricey but good and new!

Yes, the motor(the 230) which is not supposed to be in the truck anyway, maybe somebody out there may want to give a 100 bucks for it and the trany being specific for old trucks, someone may want as well. It would't be the money from the parts as just getting them out of my ever growing smaller garage! ; ) I could video tape the motor running so then at least whomsoever would know that it does run. But I'd like to keep it running for the sakes of moving it around.

Well, back to the garage, helps me think cleaning it!
I'll let ya'll know what Herb says ~

I think I may have bumped my head a few times beneath my maxjax lift! :confu Ouch!
 
I had a '73 impala 4 door similar to the one you are looking at... 3 siblings had it before it was handed down to me at just over 100K. I put a holley 600, edelbrock torker intake, new cam, headers, dual exhaust and a B&M shift kit in it.. The torker intake helped it wind up over 3500 rpms, the shift kit made the trans shift real hard and sometimes could get a little tire spin on the 1-2 shift... at least a good 2nd gear chirp. I got about 11 months out of it using it as a daily driver... brought it to new england dragway quite a bit during the summer too... the point is I beat the snot out of it finally causing reverse to slip and eventually spun a rod bearing on the motor at around 115K miles.

For some reason, I don't see you driving it like a knuckleheaded 19 year old... If your not not planning to abuse it or work it real hard, then you don't really need a 4 bolt main block. Mel may be onto something regarding the changes that year, but I think it's more to do with changes in the heads to be compatible with unleaded fuel and the gas crisis. I don't think chevy did anything different to the block itself.

The motor in my '65 decodes to a 74 Impala block (Police version) Still a 2 bolt main, cast crank etc... bored 60 over and still runs cool. It worked fine for 8 years and this summer I gave it cleanup hone, new hyperutectic pistons (had low compression cast dished pistons), rings, bearings, reconditioned twisted wedge aluminum heads, new carb and intake. For the upgrades I have in it, I really should have a 4 bolt main. I'm not planning to drive it real hard, but am pretty comfortable with the setup to drive it in a mildly spirited manner. If I get 2 or 3 years out of the bottom end I'll be very happy.

Accesories do add up fast if you end up needing to source everything new... Here are some of the things I ended up getting over the last few years, some I held off on but here I are average prices I found for mediocre parts. HEI dist ~80, oil pan $60, one piece oil pan gasket $35, motor mounts ~40 pair, starter ~80, Alternator $45, Waterpump $30, power steering pump $40, PS hoses $20, steering box $180, timing cover $20, fuel pump $20, pulleys $vary, exhaust manifolds don't seem to be $5 anymore. brake booster ?. I bought enough new stuff for inside that I ended up reconditioned the external accessories to save a little coin. If you do accesorize it yourself, be sure to know whether you are using a long or short waterpump as the brackets and pulleys are not interchangeable.

If the engine in tranny do check out, I really don't think you would be making a mistake by using the '72 parts. To me, probabaly the best thing about that motor is that it is likely still on it's original standard bore which would likely give you plenty of service life should it need an eventual rebuild. My current 350 being 60 over already is pretty much on its last leg. Being a former police motor it's lilkey got well over 100K on it.

By the way, I went to a local car show today and as I was walking back to my car I saw this apache... A guy nearby thought it was a 58 or 59... very cool looking truck, nicely restored...
a1.jpg
 
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Gee Stang, that was a nice writeup! and what a sharp truck! hm, maybe I won't lower my truck, that looked very nice@!
Boy, really strains my brain with positive answers like yours, more like a thumbs up for the impala vs. having a motor built, finding all the gizmo's and whatnots!
I haven't told the guy I'm not buying it, but I don't think it would hurt his feelings if I backed out~ and I have't contacted Herb(my Mustang engine builder guy.
However, it's still kind of on for Tuesday and I think I'd just spring for the wrecker to go get it vs. me and my brother drive it home 50 miles.

My husband is kind of perplexed about having an "old car" here. My stang is at my mom's under a carport with a car cover(hurts me to think I'd ever have it out like that! So that would make me work even more quickly to get the parts extracted from the Impala.

Kind of worries me about what you said about the short or long water pump, I hope if it's the long it would fit in my engine compartment ok. Even though my Apache compartment is large, I don't know if it's deep. rats, one more thing to think about.

I like the looks of that motor and all its original stuff~
 
DNE, just my personal preference regarding SBC engines. when I worked on the farm we routinely put 200k hard farm miles on our SBC 4 bolt main engines, took them apart honed them put new rings on the old pistons and new bearings and then ran them another 100k.

All of the 2 bolt main engines on the farm blew up throwing rods, spinning the bearings on the crank and etc by or before 100k.

So, yes you can use a 2 bolt main and be very happy. However, I wouldn't put one in a truck.

Oh, just FYI, we got 400k from the Ford 300 I6 before even cracking the valve cover.

Anyway, if it were me, I would find a 4 bolt block and have it machined and buy a kit from somewhere like PAW and put it together myself.

Really if that Apache were mine it would be getting ready for a big block (454) or something really radical, but that is just how I feel trucks should be built. I had a 72 Ford F250 I put a very built 460 in. Big blocks are so awesome.

Anyway, you need to do what you think is the right thing. All I have to tell you is make sure you take the emotion out of any decision. Just rely on facts and write down the prices of what you need for either option and weigh the pros and cons on paper.

Mel
 
One thing.....I doubt this truck will be used as hard as a farm truck get used......so engine duty will be different. I have seen many happy 2 bolt mains in custom trucks.
 
You're right Pete!
IT would/will be driven mostly to the Nifty50ee's and to my moms home, and to get Tea. It will never be driven fast, nor accelerated hard(ok maybe a little bit). My mustang rarely sees 35-4000rpm! I just want a nice looking motor, dependable, easy/easier to work on and get parts for. 2 or 4 bolt I don't really mind what it has. I know once the motor is on the engine stand, I'll probably pull the valve covers and see HOPEfully not a lot of sludge! Replace the fuel pump or may even go electric, take a close look at the water pump, external things will probably be replaced(wires, cap), it can have points for all I care. I'm not going to chrome out this motor like I did my stang, it will hopefully look new like the day it was put in the Impala, I'd like that!. IF it needs overhauled, I may call Herb, but I think I may could do it(with ya'lls help, advice). If the car does have actually only 42k miles, and not a 142k miles, I'll be ok! lol I'd just hate to tell Gary, "honey the motor needs overhauling, ching ching!" eek! I have a nice room for the motor in an air conditioned part of my garage, so I will be comfortable and have my mini lift for lifting!

It's a project, not meant to get on the road anytime soon, I'm in no hurry. I honestly didn't think the mustang would ever get on the road! ; )
I do like the challenge of it all, and keeps me thinking and looking forward to the next day. I find when I finish a project, I feel useless!

so, no matter what is right or wrong with this impala, I will hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. I sold my '57 Chevy so I have additional funds, but I'm being stingy with the money this time. It will be a challenge just to keep the parts list prices down!
Tea time! ; )


"AzPete" said:
One thing.....I doubt this truck will be used as hard as a farm truck get used......so engine duty will be different. I have seen many happy 2 bolt mains in custom trucks.
Click to expand...
 
Impala has arrived!

Well, after much unneccessary worrying about getting it here, my brother and I drove 50 miles to where the clunker (impala)was. Met with Sylvester~ he was prepping the car for the 50 mile trip. I didn't realize just how large a car this is! Gee what a dinosaur! I did get insurance for a day from our Allstate guy, more like a favor, afterall we have 5 cars and our home with his company!
I brought the battery from my mustang fully charged as Sylvester said the alt doesn't work and doesn't have a battery. We put 5 gallons of gas in it. and got going!
I followed my brother closely watching for any signs of whatever, if anything was going first, if was the muffler! and sure enough, about 10 miles it came loose and sparking, so Robo pulled in a convenient spot, I pulled out the floor jack, grabbed the muffler thinking I was going to hang it somehow, but it just broke off of the tailpipe, it weighed nothing! then the tailpipe easily was removed. Then got going again, now it sounded like a car without a muffler! lol
The only other thing that I noticed was water/coolant was coming from somewhere when getting gas, wound up being a casting plug/freeze plug. I had the car up on my lift last night. I verified the freeze plug on the left side. Otherwise, the motor ran well, shifted well. The tranny was painted blue, didn't some company paint their tranny's blue, like Aamco? Front seal leaking on motor, no big suprises!

The radiator is as wide as a football field, and the condensor too! I don't know if I"ll be able to use these or not. Most importantly is the motor/tranny/rear axle. I'll do some measurements today regarding the rear axle. I will have to weld on some new perches, and shock tabs.

Probably be next week before I really get after it, but I don't think it should take long to get it all apart(removal of the motor/tranny).
My garage became abruptly crowded! ; )

I'm in new territory here. The motor from my stang was built and installed. I'll be pulling the motor, then pulling the motor from the Apache(tranny's too). and tearing into the 350 motor as far as I need to go. if there is a ridge, then I'll probably send it to Herb.

meandimpala.jpg

My oldest brother and closest brother. We have done a lot of fun things throughout life, why stop now! ; ) Thanks Rob!
Roboandimpala.jpg

no radio, no ac and running on battery power and 5 gallons of gas, but no smoke out the tailpipe!
IMG_9823.jpg
 
Glad you made it.....great color too, and I see you wore the right shirt. Take pics of any thing you disassemble. Do not cut anything unless you have to. Pull more than you think you will need. Nothing like needing a part that just went to the crusher.

I would pull all the freeze plugs, flush the block, and put in new. One bad....they are all most likely the same age.

Pulling the engine and tranny together is easy.
 
Darn, I forgot the get Gary to help me remove the hood last night! argh! So the motor and tranny together eh! So I can pretty much just leave EVERYTHING on the motor (ac,ps,alt). yes Pete I'm saving EVERYTHING! I'm thinking about even using the complete under the dash wiring harness. I think the tilt column is even going to lool pretty good! Maybe a different steering wheel of course. I'll post more photos later today, just have some errands to run.
Ill be back!
 
Pull the radiator and such, maybe the radiator support, and it all comes out easy. It will still come out a one piece with the rad. support in....just needs more angle. Might raise the rear for it. Just watch for the balance point. Use the engine hoist on the hood. Attach it securely to the hood latch area and then take out the hinge bolts. All you are dealing with then is one end manually. Did you use a pressure washer first????
 
motor and rear axle

Gee Pete, I have a wonderful pressure washer but forgot all about it!
I went ahead and pulled the tranny from below, wasn't too bad. I dropped the tranny pan, drained the fluid, bolted it back up and commenced the task~ I hate the smell of transmssion fluid! I did remove the radiator, and hopefully I'll get to pull the motor tomorrow. I talked to Herb about him overhauling it and he said parts plus a couple hundred for labor. He asked if I'd like to take part in the overhaul~ Heck yes! Herb is a neat guy! I'll look forward to helping and learning!
350motor.jpg


Now this rear axle is kind of complicated, but I'd still like to use it! Is it as simple as just removing all the brackets and welding on my spring perches? I know it's not simple~ The rear end of the driveshaft is a constant velocity joint, looks kind of neat!
rearaxleimpala.jpg
 
Yes and no on the rear end. The angle of the drive shaft in relationship to the tranny is what you need to watch. That all comes into play as you get the engine, tranny and rear axle in place for doing the mounts. Cut off all the old mount points and locate and weld your new mounts and shock mounts in place.

What is wrong with the current rear end in the truck? It may hold up to the V8 just fine...might want to check that.
 
Pete, thank you~ I appreciate your responses and I appreciate even more after the glass of wine I had at the Indian resteraunt a little bit ago! I'm thinking clearly however!
The current rear end: I do know when I turn the driveshaft by hand, there is about 3/4" inch of turn or freeplay. Very sloppy, but I don't know that much about rear axles or the setup of the ring and pinion. I've never had the axle spinning with a load to say if it makes noise or not. I have a friend mechanic who could set it up if I bought new components. It's just this axle out of the impala is heavy duty and the driveshaft seems specific to the driveshaft, the way it bolts up via flanges. The rear axle can be put off for a while as I have plenty to do. I'm leaving the motor in the Apache until the last moment, The apache needs some major TLC inside the engine compartment! I'm going to buy the polyurethane faux motor to set up the correct motor supports~ you know this Apache is proving to be taxing! going to get some icecream! brb
rearaxle.jpg
 
Hang in there.....a bit of wine....some ice cream.....some rest....and you will be tearing into it for sure.

Either rear end should be looked at. The gears can be measured for wear and backlash. I would have your mechanic in the know look at both and go from there. You most likely will need the drive shaft length changed anyway so any u-joint set up could be used. Also, how is the width of the car vs truck for fitment?
 
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