JD08
Active Member
mRNA vaccines aren't gene therapy, but if the technology concerns you so greatly, take the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, it's not an mRNA vaccine, it's a viral vector vaccine.
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COVID 19 Vaccine Discussion
- Thread starter Horseplay
- Start date
I think the Phizer vaccine may be corrupt. I’m starting to think and feel leftest thoughts and I keep getting the urge to have the politicians run my life 
Mark
Mark
So your campaign slogan will be: Make All Ears Large Again?I think the Phizer vaccine may be corrupt. I’m starting to think and feel leftest thoughts and I keep getting the urge to have the politicians run my life
Mark
True. Hundreds of people having deadly reactions from any vaccine is considered an 'acceptable loss'. Just as I chose not to get the influenza vaccine I chose not to get the covid drug for the same reasons. A) The survival rate if I contract the virus for someone in my age group with no health issues is 99.5%. I will take those odds all day long. B) The efficacy of the influenza vaccine for example the last year I heard reported was 17% so the other 83% of people who took the vaccine were unprotected if they came in contact or contracted the flu. C) The efficacy of the covid drug is reported as being in the 95%+ range. I call BS on that because just like the flu scientists are guessing what will work. Excuse me, predicting. I have a better chance of surviving covid if I catch without the vaccine than I dso with it. Simple.
I think you keep missing the point of my argument, Mark. It's not if YOU get COVID, its about you trying to prevent yourself from infecting others who might be much more at risk from it.
I'm generally very much in the every man for himself camp when it comes to individuals lives and welfare, as it relates to income and opportunities. When speaking of a pandemic situation like COVID has brought, whereby we are only as safe as those around us allow, I break a bit more to the social responsibilities side and feel the all for one approach serves everyone better. At least until something comes along that only affects those who contribute nothing to our society.
I'm generally very much in the every man for himself camp when it comes to individuals lives and welfare, as it relates to income and opportunities. When speaking of a pandemic situation like COVID has brought, whereby we are only as safe as those around us allow, I break a bit more to the social responsibilities side and feel the all for one approach serves everyone better. At least until something comes along that only affects those who contribute nothing to our society.
I get what you’re saying and I’m normally in the camp of; fuck other people, but in this instance, I’m thinking that if I’m vaccinated, the odds drop significantly that A: I’ll contract it and B: Pass it on to someone else, possibly killing them. I’m ok with myself dying from any disease, but I don’t think I could live with myself if I passed it on and hurt someone else by my actions/inactions. For me, it really is just that simple.
Mark
Im not missing anything, Terry. I very much dont want to get the virus and have modified my behavior to accommodate others who are more fearful of contracting it than I am. I also have a treatment plan in pace with my doctor should I become ill and I have a plan of where to self-quarantine so I do not infect others, namely my housemates. I think Im far more prepared than most people and far more educated because I dont listen to only 'red' or blue' news sources. And Ive never hammered on anyone for their decision to accept an influenza vaccine and now the covid vaccine even though accepting the vaccine(s) is not the right decision for me. Personal choice, personal liberty.I think you keep missing the point of my argument, Mark. It's not if YOU get COVID, its about you trying to prevent yourself from infecting others who might be much more at risk from it.
I'm generally very much in the every man for himself camp when it comes to individuals lives and welfare, as it relates to income and opportunities. When speaking of a pandemic situation like COVID has brought, whereby we are only as safe as those around us allow, I break a bit more to the social responsibilities side and feel the all for one approach serves everyone better. At least until something comes along that only affects those who contribute nothing to our society.
And I like to determine peoples motivation for doing things, like try and discredit a decision Ive made. I know why my mom is guilt shaming me for not getting the flu and covid vaccines, Im working on why others cant/wont accept my decision for myself. Afterall, dont we live in a (sort of) free country? If youre wearing a mask and social distancing like the 'experts' recommend, shouldnt you be 'safe' regardess of what others do or dont do? If I get a vaccine, shouldnt I be 'safe' from catching the virus regardless of whether or not others do or dont get the same vaccine?
This isnt what Im hearing, Randy. Ive heard we could probably reach her immunity as early as next month and as late as this summer from MSM sources. How long have we been battling influenza? How many people did you ever see wearing a mask during flu season? How could the influenza infection rate for January 2021 be nine (9) people in the entire US when last January the infection rate for the entire country was in the tens of thousands? Herd immunity is more like a desired outcome because we will never reach it and sustain it. There are over a million children born in the US every year so new infection targets every year.
Ahhh...the flu vaccine. Here's the real skinny. There are at least a hundred variants of influenza, and it is impossible to vaccinate against all variants. So...the experts examine the variants making the rounds and a year ahead of time, they put in the order for the vaccine which can handle only 4 of the variants. It takes a long time to manufacture the vaccine, at least a year. So...when it is time to give it, the active variants are not one of those four predicted, typically. That's why the flu vaccine has an historically low effectiveness rate. I don't take the flu vaccine for that reason. That, and I don't interact with the public much, particularly school-age children.
Now then, it is puzzling that the flu rate is so low the past year or so. Social distancing has certainly helped. Hospitals were swamped with COVID and most people handle the flu without being hospitalized. I'm sure some flu's were diagnosed as COVID, probably mild in nature. Other medical illnesses, heart attacks, strokes, etc., also diminished. They probably did not, but the reporting of them did as people were scared of going to the ER where the probability of catching COVID is thought to be higher. Most illnesses are reported by Hospitals, not by physicians, so the reported rates of illnesses appear to decline.
Now then, it is puzzling that the flu rate is so low the past year or so. Social distancing has certainly helped. Hospitals were swamped with COVID and most people handle the flu without being hospitalized. I'm sure some flu's were diagnosed as COVID, probably mild in nature. Other medical illnesses, heart attacks, strokes, etc., also diminished. They probably did not, but the reporting of them did as people were scared of going to the ER where the probability of catching COVID is thought to be higher. Most illnesses are reported by Hospitals, not by physicians, so the reported rates of illnesses appear to decline.
crustycurmudgeon
Well-Known Member
I just scheduled my appointment for the first shot for a week from next Monday. I got an email from Kaiser telling me I'm eligible.
JD08
Active Member
Surface transmission is huge with influenza. People have been disinfecting every surface since the start of covid. IMO, that's played a larger role than masks and distancing. As far as the flu vaccine, while it isn't 100% because they have to guess which strain(s) will be dominant, it does ensure that you'll have a less severe case should you catch it. Given the choice between end up hospitalized or missing a day of work with a fever, I'll choose the latter. The good thing about the covid vaccine is that it even if you do end up catching it, there hasn't been a single hospitalization or death from covid of a vaccinated person. 100% chance of survival > 99.5%
As far as the case numbers reported, hospitals do report the numbers but the physician assigns the cause of death. This is why it was laughable that hospitals were changing cause of death to make money. Every diagnosis the patient has is listed on the death certificate, but only one is considered the primary cause. The problem comes when people try to generate reports from this it's easy to get deaths with a condition instead of from a condition.
As far as the case numbers reported, hospitals do report the numbers but the physician assigns the cause of death. This is why it was laughable that hospitals were changing cause of death to make money. Every diagnosis the patient has is listed on the death certificate, but only one is considered the primary cause. The problem comes when people try to generate reports from this it's easy to get deaths with a condition instead of from a condition.
I hope we're not making you feel like we are ganging up on you. After all the communications we've had over the years now I also don't think you a dimwit (and I've had enough experience to know one when I see one
) but I still think you're missing the main point here. You may very well, right now, be carrying the shit and not even know it. At least that is what the current science and information tell us. If you are that adamant about not taking the vaccine then you really need to act as though you will contract it and stay huddled up in your dark and lonely basement, unable to take that beautiful, freshly finished '65 out for a drive. At least for the balance of the year. Or you could get the vaccine, know you are not a carrier of death, and get back to living your life of freedom.All the talk of herd immunity and such WILL NOT HAPPEN if any sizeable portion of the population is still subject to the virus. What happens come October when "everyone" has had the vaccine and life returns to the old normal. You're out to dinner and seated next to you is table full of others who weren't vaccinated and one of them has it unknowingly? They aren't wearing a mask. I sincerely doubt you will be. So you catch it and take it home with you. To work. To visit your mom. I just don't see how it is worth the risk to not take the vaccine. I'll leave this as my last post on the subject. It's not my place to harp on anyone about a personal choice. I just wanted to make sure the scene was painted clear enough.
crustycurmudgeon
Well-Known Member
Permanente. It's a hospital and health care provider.
Mach1 Driver
Well-Known Member
and not nearly as effective
JD08
Active Member
I asked about that and was told not to make too much of it because of differences in the study designs and the timing. The Pfizer and Moderna studies started when the disease was at it's very worst.
Mach1Rider
Active Member
So this virus of which Fauci was doing GoF testing on and sent it to China along with 1.6M of taxpayer money comes out in the beginning of a election year and he states there is nothing to worry about with no mask required because its not transfered by humans.
The it becomes a pandemic world wide.
Now they tell you the vaccine is a MUST have to MAYBE get back to previous life but they are not sure when.
Sorry the masked person with a needle telling me Not to worry, I'm from the Government and we are here to help.
Is NOT getting anywhere near me.
The it becomes a pandemic world wide.
Now they tell you the vaccine is a MUST have to MAYBE get back to previous life but they are not sure when.
Sorry the masked person with a needle telling me Not to worry, I'm from the Government and we are here to help.
Is NOT getting anywhere near me.
sgtjunior
Well-Known Member
Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist or an alarmist but I also don't believe that numbers aren't skewed or played with. Maybe it's because I live/worked in the most crooked city and county in the country. As a 30 year LE I've been in the hospital and court where medical terms and reasoning have been a bit off. In my visit with my cardiologist last week and he openly told me about a recent event where he was filling in at the ER overnight and a young pregnant woman overdosed (it wasn't her first) and her and the child didn't make it. Around here that makes an ME case and the ME ruled both Covid because she tested positive. So I'm not minimizing Covid and it's effects but I believe the numbers as much as guys telling what HP they have. My belief is the long term effects of Covid are the real issues.
sgtjunior
Well-Known Member
Fixed it for you:
No question the numbers get manipulated and misreported for a myriad of reasons. Medical providers have incentive(s) to mark anything and everything possible as being COVID related. At least at the hospital where my wife works and the affiliates all over the Chicagoland area. I'm sure it is the same with all and everywhere. Just the same as public schools are not actually concerned about kids being present in the classroom everyday for the purpose of learning but rather to get the daily dose of federal funding per child (remember when they all actually went to school?).
Then you have the political reasons that numbers get "tweaked" whatever way they need that day. Look no further than the data coming out from the southern border these days and compare it to a year or three ago and check the way the media/government responds(ed) to each.